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Outcomes Rocket Podcast - Lisa Suennen

Why Health Leaders Must Seriously Consider Social Determinants of Health with Lisa Suennen, Senior Managing Director, Healthcare at GE Ventures and Managing Partner at Venture Valkyrie, LLC

: [00:00:01] Welcome to the Outcomes Rocket podcast where we inspire collaborative thinking, improved outcomes and business success with today's most successful and inspiring healthcare leaders and influencers. And now your host Saul Marquez

Saul Marquez: [00:00:19] Outcomes rocket listeners, welcome back once again to the outcomes rocket podcast where we chat with today's most successful and inspiring healthcare leaders really want to thank you for tuning in. And I want to invite you to outcomes rocket dot com slash reviews rec'd leave a rating and review for this podcast. So without further ado I want to introduce our outstanding guest. Her name is Lisa Suennen. She's a senior managing director for healthcare and G.E. ventures. And so she's also a writer and blogger and podcaster at Venture Valkyrie and so she's done a lot of things. You guys are probably very familiar with who she is but what I want to do is welcome Lisa to the podcast and then have to fill in any of the gaps in the intro that I may have missed. Lisa welcome.

Lisa Suennen: [00:01:03] Hello there. Well that's about that about covers and I do all kinds of crazy stuff but that's the main thing the main day jobs.

Saul Marquez: [00:01:09] I love it. I love it you're up to some really cool things. And so I always love to ask why did you get into health care to begin with.

Lisa Suennen: [00:01:17] You know it wasn't really an intention. I was working in the tech world. This is back you know in the 80s I was finding it frankly pretty boring sultry Internet kind of stuff right. Yeah. And I talked to my dad who had been in a health care entrepreneur who was healthcare entrepreneur. And he said you know there's some really interesting health care companies you might find that were inspiring and I meet up with a guy a new CEO of a company and the rest is history.

Saul Marquez: [00:01:43] That's pretty cool. You know and it sounds like your dad kind of had the roots in healthcare entrepreneurship and you just kind of led that way and you haven't looked back since.

Lisa Suennen: [00:01:51] I look sideways every once in a while but no not too far.

Saul Marquez: [00:01:55] Nice nice. I love it. I love it. So you're doing some really cool things at G.E. movement and shaking with your own podcast. I have tuned into it. Really great great conversations listeners I'll include a link to Lisa's podcast on the show notes for this one so you could listen because Craig Onix. That's right. Called tectonics and so take a listen. She's doing some really cool stuff on there too. Lisa what do you think. I know all the things that are going on in health care is a hot topic that should be on every medical leaders agenda today.

Lisa Suennen: [00:02:27] Well I think a lot of people would expect me to say technology stuff and there is a lot of technology stuff going on. And I'm glad for that. But I also think that one of the most important things that we can really pay attention to is figuring out how to systematize productize and simplify the access to the social determinants of health. Things around housing nutrition transportation and other related categories that frankly have far more impact on the cost of health care than do many things that we attribute the cost of health care too. And so while I am a big fan of technology and health care and excited about a lot of things that's probably the number one most impactful thing we can do is expand our view of precision health to include an entire patients life.

Saul Marquez: [00:03:15] I think that's really interesting and you know the first thought that comes to mind. Lisa I've been doing a lot of thinking about this and one of the things that you've probably very aware is when companies get into this space oftentimes they're faced with the problems of who pays for it and when you talk about the social determinants of health. Who pays for it.

Lisa Suennen: [00:03:33] Well it's a touch you know obviously the 64000 dollar question as well. I think in a system that's a closed or fully at risk capitated type of system the answer is easy it's the payer right because frankly the downstream cost of not attending to these issues is so high. You know if a patient needs to get an A for services and treatment but they have no transportation it's going to be more expensive take care of them if they can't get access to behavioral health services keep him stabilized they're not going to take care of their diabetes or her condition. Right. So it's really easy on the interest financial interests are aligned when they're not. It's tough you know and the truth is the same in the end I think ultimately it was ever financial risk for the program for the person or the member whomever it may be is who should pay for it. If they're looking to reduce healthcare costs and improve outcomes.

Saul Marquez: [00:04:26] Yeah and just kind of diving deeper into that Lisa. The thought is OK well maybe these patients where now they're being tagged with readmission fees right the provider. So. And yeah so just it's a really great idea and just picking through it could be really impactful. You know anybody doing cool stuff in the space right now.

Lisa Suennen: [00:04:46] I do, actually I think there's a couple companies like healthify, Nowpow and ConsejoSano who are doing finding ways to create for profit business models out of these things companies like CareMore the healthplan. Oh yeah they're doing some incredible stuff particularly around lowliness which frankly is considered to be more deleterious about health and smoking now among older populations. It's very interesting yeah. There's a lot of a lot of work been done about that. So there are some really great programmatic work being done out there. There's a great organization called the Health leagues which is working on this for years. So you know there's a lot of good stuff. It's just not widespread yet. Unscalable and I think some of these organizations are trying to figure out how to solve that.

Saul Marquez: [00:05:32] Yeah for sure. Some great examples and definitely listeners take a look at these companies because if you're exploring the space if anybody knows companies doing good thing that's Lisa. So take a look at those for sure. I'll provide links in the in the show notes too. But Lisa give us an example of how you maybe GE or through you or your own you know podcasting are seeing outcomes improvement through the things that you're doing.

Lisa Suennen: [00:05:59] Well I think that our goal actually ventures is to invest in things that align incentives improve outcomes and reduce costs for all parties involved. We are really excited for instance about sysops which is a company that I did interview the CEO Ken Tarka on my cast recently. They combined data from Myanmar's and genomic data and the like to help identify what's the most effective likely treatments for cancer patients. You know personalized medicine approach. Yes I think that's a good example of that. We're working with another company called Health reveal which uses similarly large quantities of data from disparate sources to identify patients who are not getting treated in accordance with best practices of evidence based medicine. Identify people who might be very likely to have a stroke or heart attack or something and intervene with them before those horrible things happen which obviously saves money but more importantly saves lives. Yeah. So you know that's a big focus of what we do and to the extent we can identify those types of things that align incentives for patient payer and provider. Those are things we look for.

Saul Marquez: [00:07:08] I love that those are really great examples of the sign it's so great that you're doing this you know having these people on your show having these conversations because half the battle is breaking down the silos and communication and health care and so kudos to you for taking the six that so maybe you could share with us. Lisa you've done a lot in health care of a time when you had a setback or a failure and what you took out of that. What pearls of wisdom you took out of that.

Lisa Suennen: [00:07:35] Well I mean those of us who've been inventor or have had numerous setbacks and failures. The odds of all of our companies succeeding are pretty low. And I think about one for instance along the way that what does it do. Actually it was kind of focused on the social determinants thing. Ironically it was. But cancer was focused on getting ancillary services to cancer patients like physical therapy nutrition counseling financial counseling behavioral counseling. You know things that address the side effects of having cancer and being treated for cancer and it was set up kind of as an in clinic model with them physician offices within cancer clinics you know particularly the community sometimes in hospitals and it failed. And I was really upset by that because I didn't really believe what they were doing was good and it was clearly good. I mean there was no dispute as to whether it was helpful to patients patients loved yes but physicians just the oncologist at the time and this is now probably 10 years ago sort of early on in the discussion of paying for the social determinants types of stuff or the ancillary services type stuff. I think it's more common now particularly at the NCI Caterson cancer centers and the like physicians just couldn't remember to refer to it didn't bother to refer to it you know and I think part of it was workflow didn't exactly fit the workflow. Yeah the part of it was frankly it didn't add real revenue to their practices and that we know stood in the way of success and really taught me about how how important that aspect of it is not just the workflow I do about the workflow aspect. We worked hard on that. We obviously didn't get it right but also the financial incentive alignment was a stark example because you're doing something you know is good. You can't get people to refer to it for financial reasons they just didn't make any real revenue from it while they didn't lose money from it. It just didn't care enough.

Saul Marquez: [00:09:27] Yeah Lisa that's such a great great lesson and listeners something to consider as you dive into your business ideas or if you're looking to implement something into your hospital. Lisa brings in some really great examples. This company that just the heart was there but the money and the incentives weren't truly aligned. And it's something that you really have to make sure it's aligned. Yeah. You know Lisa one of the things that comes to mind when we talk about aligned incentives is the implementation of CAP Nagra fee to avoid respiratory compromise in hospitals. And I'll tell you what. You know it's one of those things that should be done but frankly is not done everywhere and it's just an example of you got to make sure you find a way to either bake it into the order set the physician or otherwise find a financial incentive because otherwise it's not happening.

Lisa Suennen: [00:10:23] Yeah well there's many examples of things like that unfortunately and until we have a system where the financial alignment is ubiquitous we will continue to find examples of things like this.

Saul Marquez: [00:10:33] Totally. LISA Okay. So that's one side of the coin. Let's look at the other side the much more bright and amazing side the stuff that you do. What are your proudest moments to date in what you do.

Lisa Suennen: [00:10:45] We'll give you not what you probably expect to answer but my proudest moments are really two things that come to my mind immediately. One is that my daughter told me not that long ago my daughter is in college that she appreciated that I was a role model for her and I know that's like. But you know it really meant something to me that I was always the mom that worked among many moms that didn't around me and that I felt really committed to that and I did what I could to be with her of course but that I felt it was important to have a career to model that for her and she all the guilt that I felt all those years of not being around for whatever programs at school. I think that all washed away with that discussion. For one thing the other thing is now you know being of a certain age and not in my 20s anymore. I spent a lot of time advocating for women and strictly women in leadership and health care and I appreciate that people look up to me for that and that I've been able to do something active and create a company called C-sweetener for mentoring of women in leadership and health care that's been taking off and I know that people respond to it and feel excited about it. And it's very gratifying. I mean it's of course gratifying to invest in a great company and see them succeed. That's incredibly gratifying. But some of the other stuff has been super exciting too.

Saul Marquez: [00:12:09] Totally. And you know what. It's so wonderful. Thanks for sharing that. Lisa I'll have to replay this part of the podcast for my wife because she and she does get these feelings of guilt. And so you're doing an amazing job. Just trust me you are. And so I'm hoping that my son when he grows up he can say the same thing he said to you and I'm going to give him some guidance. So thanks for sharing that and the other organization. I wasn't aware of that when me so that you started that. So that's very encouraging to hear that you have a movement like that in place.

Lisa Suennen: [00:12:44] Yeah it's a company called the C-sweetener. He could find it on the web light of what is going on

Saul Marquez: [00:12:50] Why the name, it's a really interesting name.

Lisa Suennen: [00:12:52] It was a play on the word c suite is the target women who are already women in the sweetener were either in the c sweet or near to the c sweet, to make it a sweeter experience. Hence the name. And like that it's kind of a model where women can sign up as men to use it's for women who are you know senior level and match with mentors through batching that's both skill based and interest based as well as personality based with mentors who've signed up and committed time who are extremely experienced people both men and women dedicated to helping women find more in their careers.

Saul Marquez: [00:13:31] That's so cool. Definitely another one we'll have to check out listener so if you find yourself as somebody that can give mentorship or you want to receive mentorship your lady wanting to receive mentorship please visit. But if the mentors could be men and women right.

Lisa Suennen: [00:13:46] Yes the mentors can be men and women I mean we really feel strongly that if men don't participate in the change it will never be struggling.

Saul Marquez: [00:13:53] Yeah for sure. Oh that's so great. So listeners you'll have a link to that too. Lisa doing some amazing things. Tell us about an exciting project you're working on today.

Lisa Suennen: [00:14:02] Well I think we're starting to do a GE where I work is very much a leader in 3-D printing broadly and we're starting a project on the investing side to really focus it on where the opportunities are going to be to make a material difference no pun intended. And I was just going to say a 3D printing world applied to healthcare and I'm really excited about that. I feel like that could have. It's early in the 3D printing application elsewhere but I see how it could have really a big impact over time. You know and we want to be at the front of.

Saul Marquez: [00:14:37] That it's really exciting. And so if you had to say one thing that that's exciting say ten years from now in that space what is the prospect of fill in the blank.

Lisa Suennen: [00:14:46] Printing scanned printing organs printing bone.

Saul Marquez: [00:14:49] The biological side of it.

Lisa Suennen: [00:14:50] Yeah. I mean we're already using it for her some things health care at least experimentally but boy can you imagine how many lives could be saved if you could could use some of those things and use organic products and the body great can.

Saul Marquez: [00:15:06] That be really great. No more donor waitlists.

Lisa Suennen: [00:15:09] Imagine if you could print about heart valves that fit properly. Amazing was made of natural material that would be amazing.

Saul Marquez: [00:15:17] Now our but super interesting definitely Lisa. The list goes on and on and what you do and so appreciate you kind of getting those little gems out to the listener.

Lisa Suennen: [00:15:25] Sure.

Saul Marquez: [00:15:26] All right. Getting to the end here what we're going to do Lisa is you and I. Let's just pretend we're building a medical leadership course on what it takes to be successful in medicine. It's the 101 or the ABC is over. Lisa Suennen, it's a syllabus right now for questions lightning round style followed by the book that will add for our listeners. You ready. Yes. All right. So what's the best way to improve healthcare outcomes?.

Lisa Suennen: [00:15:51] Design products and services that really align particularly financial ones can focus deeply on the clinical side of that. I mean without clinical depth it doesn't go anywhere.

Saul Marquez: [00:16:03] What is the biggest mistake or pitfall to avoid.

Lisa Suennen: [00:16:06] Hiring weak people.

Saul Marquez: [00:16:08] Ooh, that's so great. How do you stay relevant as an organization despite constant change.

Lisa Suennen: [00:16:14] Never stop learning. I mean I think you have to not believe your own B.S. You have to always assume other people are smarter and you have to like go seek out information all the time.

Saul Marquez: [00:16:23] What is one area of focus should drive everything else in your organization.

Lisa Suennen: [00:16:28] Creating value for patients.

Saul Marquez: [00:16:30] And finally. Lisa what book would you recommend to the listeners here on the syllabus.

Lisa Suennen: [00:16:34] Now in an age where data is becoming more and more important I love to recommend Moneyball. It is about baseball it has nothing to do with health care. Yeah. The analogies are terrific. I think the cleverness in which data was applied to make decisions about teams about strategy you know in a way that nobody really had written about before. It's funny as hell it's great.

Saul Marquez: [00:16:57] Lisa so I've seen the movie does it differ from the book much.

Lisa Suennen: [00:17:01] It's a lot more in-depth about how they use data. It's a lot more wonky in a way. Yeah but it's still absolutely fun to read apply. You know and I wasn't big baseball fans. I love it. Didn't know that about you very cool listeners so there you have it Moneyball along with the answers to this syllabus. You could find everything on the show notes. Just go to and you're going to be able to find everything that we just talked about today right there. So Lisa before we conclude I just invite you to share a closing thought with the guest and then the best way that they can get a hold of you or follow you.

Lisa Suennen: [00:17:41] The best way to follow me is at on my Website you can sign up for my blog. Or you can follow me on Twitter @venturevalkyrie and my closing thought is if you don't ask you don't get go out there in the world and ask for what you need you know find partnerships ask for help and ask for opportunity. It's amazing what you get when you ask.

Saul Marquez: [00:18:02] What a great message Lisa and listeners. Be sure to ask and again be sure to visit us at Let us know what you think. Lisa just want to say thank you so much once again for spending time with you.

Saul Marquez: [00:18:16] Thanks so much Saul.

: [00:18:20] Thanks for listening to the Outcomes Rocket podcast. Be sure to visit us on the web at for the show notes, resources, inspiration and so much more.

Recommended Book/s:

Moneyball: The Art of Winning an Unfair Game

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Outcomes Rocket Podcast - Lisa Suennen

Outcomes Rocket Podcast

Data Transparency with Vincent Keunen, CEO at Andaman7

: [00:00:01] Welcome to the outcomes rocket podcast where we inspire collaborative thinking, improved outcomes and business success with today's most successful and inspiring healthcare leaders and influencers. And now your host, Saul Marquez

Saul Marquez: [00:00:19] Outcomes Rocket listeners welcome back once again to the outcomes rocket podcast where we chat with today's most successful and inspiring healthcare leaders. I want to welcome you to go to That's where you can leave a rating and review for today's show or any show in particular if you like. Let us now give us some feedback. We're always looking for ways to make the show more productive to help you improve outcomes and reduce inefficiency. Without further ado I want to introduce our outstanding guest and a good friend of mine. Vincent Keunen, he's the founder and CEO at Andaman7. They're focused on using software to improve health care by providing innovative technologies. That's going to help really bring together the decision making support for the development of drugs as well as decision making support in the hospitals and so I want to introduce you guys to this wonderful man. He's been founder of several different startups. He's a serial entrepreneur very passionate healthcare. And so I want to open up the mic to you Vincent to fill in any of the gaps in that introduction that I may have missed. Welcome to the podcast.

Vincent Keunen: [00:01:28] Thank you. It's so great to talk to you. Yes I've been I'm a on engineer and I've been in the health sector for 20 years. I'm here in Benjamin Europe. So we did quite a few large scale projects here in Belgium around medical records around the secure exchange of medical information. And yet following problems with health in the family I decided to focus more on this and the months of the project which is both a social goal for patients and that we still need the revenues. It's been a big project and that's going to be revenue from the to be so pharma companies from hospitals and other actors in the health sector are.

Saul Marquez: [00:02:13] Fantastic. And and so why did you decide to get into healthcare to begin with.

Vincent Keunen: [00:02:18] Well when I was 18 and I had to decide between engineer oral medicine I finally chose to be a software engineer and buy some kind of we are turned around the life of or was developed for the medical service so connecting the dots as well. Guy you know.

Saul Marquez: [00:02:37] Absolutely. And you know Vincent one of the cool things that I love about just talking to leaders like you is that it's those philosophical beliefs that you have. And it's a decision that hey you know what. You could choose one or the other or you could choose both. And you know a lot of times people just say you've got to pick one or the other. But the true leaders in health care say you know I don't have to compromise. I choose both. And you chose both engineering and medicine and kudos to you for doing that.

Vincent Keunen: [00:03:05] Thank you very much.

Saul Marquez: [00:03:07] Absolutely. So tell us Vincent you've been through many ventures. You've done a lot for health care on the software side for medicine. What do you think every healthcare leader today should be thinking about and how's Andaman7 addressing this.

Vincent Keunen: [00:03:21] Well I think everybody in the health care should just think about the patients right because that's the only reason we're doing all of what we're doing to give a better health to everybody. And this by the way why the mission we chose Andaman7 so when the article 25 of the Human Rights Declaration which is that everybody has the right to good health and well-being for themselves and their family but I think that should be what everybody is doing it has scare me. On discovering new and drives being on and on caring for patients or being developing tools for doctors and patients which is what we're doing so and then Andaman7 we decided to build this tool which is free for every patient and it allows it to collect all of the health data on their smartphones. Right. Because the smartphone is the platform on the future. And you can do everything with your smartphone today except your medical information is up there. So that's the first go. We do we have to collect the data for the patients on the smartphone. And that is free and will always be free. But as the social part of the project but to be sustainable we want to have revenue and the revenues will come from hospitals doing homecare projects continuity of care but also pharma or research institutions that want to develop new drugs and that need to have to reach to the patients especially today with the cost of drugs going up with the cost of healthcare going up. So everybody needs to reduce the cost and the good way to do that is to prove real outcomes from the patients. More and more a lot going on before there is a need to get outcomes from the patients so you hear about terms like Real World Evidence patient reported outcomes. And that's exactly where we focus. So Andaman wants to be the broker to the patients and we do this with a very strict respect on the private and security you know we been in Europe. So privacy is very important here. And there's the big G.D.P. are coming up in May of the mixture giving back more power to the patients and to the citizens actually to know where is my data are being used for who is using it who is using it. So yes that's very privacy minded to with elements of it. There is no medical data stored in the cloud. Everything in the smartphone and all the smartphones of the people you trust. That's the core of the project out of it.

Saul Marquez: [00:05:51] Yeah and there's you know there's definitely a big need Vincent for just finding ways to use these devices and health care and had some recent conversations with a couple health systems and the thought here is that innovation in health care is really not only just innovation it's actually implementation. And so how do the businesses of today and tomorrow like yours implement these smart technologies in a way that is useful and scalable. You know like the things that you're doing are really interesting. Can you give us an example of how maybe early on you guys have created some outcomes improvement with what you're doing.

Vincent Keunen: [00:06:30] Yeah just just as a patient or helping a patient like my son who was diagnosed with cancer a few years ago said I've spent a lot of time in the hospitals and it was always very difficult for me to answer the questions from the doctors or to correctly write down what they were telling to me telling me. So the use of Andaman and now it makes that very easy. So read them I received permission I wore it and that meant either for me or for my children. And all of that information is shared with the people I trust. So obviously for my children the to shared with my wife. So she has a complete copy of the medical record of children. And every time she goes to the doctor she can end up with information and I will receive a copy of that. So we both have a copy of the whole information. And there was also shared with our doctors. So our our family doctor and our specialist they all have a copy of the full information from for example my child's has. So that's that's already a pretty big benefit having all of you and being able to share it. You're right. It's already to improve the outcome. Now there's also cost the patients way depending on where you live right in the U.S. yes private insurance in Europe it's more about the Social Security but the problems are the same. Because the cost of going up and there's a big need to reduce costs and a few months ago whether I was in a doctor's office because I be hired. I wanted to see that everything was OK. And the doctor told me you need to have a blood shots to be sure of your blood. And I said well I just had one month ago because my mom had leukemia and I am long been controlled every three months. She said yes. OK. Give it here. And I said yes it's in my smartphone. And I showed my smartphone with the doctor. I went through with a lot. That's when she's perfect. I can already tell you that it's good. You have no problem with your. And you don't need to have another blood shot. So that's good. Think for the instance of insurance first. And as a patient I was just having the results immediately without going to a blood test and then coming back to the doctor. Right. Which will take a few weeks at least there in 15 minutes side the results of all of their diagnostic. So that's very concrete very easy and very very good both for me and for the Social Security.

Saul Marquez: [00:08:59] I think that's really great. And you avoided an unnecessary test. You're able to form the doctor and become very very involved in your care.

Vincent Keunen: [00:09:07] Yes exactly. Patient empowerment is I think one of the great need of today especially because more and more people talk about health consumers right versus patients and of course it's it's a bit annoying maybe for doctors just patients coming in into a well I read on Wikipedia and I read on Google about this. So of course there is there's something wrong or not too very precise information on the Web. But for me it also shows that the patients really do care about a health of a lot more than before so that they want to know. So the search for the information you know about all that organic food focus for many people you know about that fitness focus that truly shows that patients want to take care of themselves well that they're really becoming healthy consumers. This as if patients.

Saul Marquez: [00:09:58] Now that's cool you know and Vinson one of the things that comes to mind too is you know some of the differences. There's a lot of similarities but also a lot of differences between health care in the states and then in Europe and in the States. It seems like many times there's not. You can't get your medical records right won't release it to you. And so it sounds like in Europe you're actually able to get your medical records.

Vincent Keunen: [00:10:21] Well yes and no or you know there's theory and practice that I'll get. I know that in the in the U.S. there is the constraint that goes to the meaningful use especially meaningful use 3 which which really put the patient in the center and the care providers do have to give the data to the patients according to meaningful use. 3 In Europe we also have European legislation that says that the data is the property of the patient so that patients can get their data they can correct it. They can ask a doctor to delete it even if they don't want to be related to that doctor anymore so that's very in favor of the patient. It's quite similar to the U.S. but this law in Europe has been there since 2002 to 15 years. But today in practice there are still a lot of resistance from some doctors or hospitals or other actors to give away the information because it takes time maybe because they don't have maybe down some fears also there. Transparency is good for the patient but sometimes it will be frightening for other factors. So I don't think there's a big difference between the U.S. and Europe. They both have very clear legislations but in practice it's difficult for both. Both areas I believe unfortunately.

Saul Marquez: [00:11:42] Yeah it is. And you know I'm I've spoken to people and you know I've seen different stories and posts about the difficulty and it'll be interesting to see how a platform like yours. You know maybe through the creation of demand make some change in the way of action right because of the laws there but how can we get the actions to follow what the law is saying should be done.

Vincent Keunen: [00:12:06] Yeah I agree. And I also believe that the pressure from patients will help. Hopefully it will have. And what I want to say also is that there are different kinds of doctors right. Some doctors are afraid of change and to be afraid of losing some kind of power. So there's some paternalism for some doctors but there's also a large number of doctors which are on the opposite side which are very open to the patient and really focus on the patients health and they know that the patient needs that they have empathy. And then when when they see them themselves as if I was the patient if I were a patient I would have made my day. I would want my days are there the stand. And there's also clinical studies today and research that proves that there is much much better outcomes to treatments when the patients are empowered when they know about their condition when they have all the details when they have their data. So it's now becoming even something that's necessary for doctors to do that if they want to cure their patients better than before. And I'm not even talking about personalized medicine because you know that for example up to that for a medication to be considered successful is to be effective. More than 30 percent of the patients right the placebo left when they were said to be better than a placebo. But nobody knows that if this medication which is only good for 25 percent which is too low maybe just 25 percent it's effective for 95 percent of people with that specific profile genetic profile or others. So I think we're missing a lot of treatments today because we don't go personalized enough. So that's the second big trend. First one I was mentioning earlier it has consumers. And the second one is specialized meeting and for that to be more personalized. Of course you need to have the genetic profile of the patients that you accept to a lot more information about the patient. So contacting the patient and exchanging data with a patient and collaborating with the patient will be more and more important. I love that in the past. So yeah I think that the patient role is getting more and more important especially for personalized needs to be effective.

Saul Marquez: [00:14:20] I think it's a great call out and your app would definitely help the patient be more proactive and put their data and own their data and be a part of the decision making and a part of the information flow. I think that's really cool. So Vincent tell us you've got obviously and I'm on seven is your current project and you're you're all in on that. You've had other projects in the past as well. Can you think back and all the way up to now an example of maybe a setback. You had a failure and what you learned from that.

Vincent Keunen: [00:14:51] Yes of course. One very clear to me was when I was doing that project about exchanging information medical information between people and doctors that was 15 years ago right. There was barely the beginning of internet or anything interesting here. And the obvious thing when you have several hospitals that are OK to this and then you have family doctors that use various types of software the obvious thing to do when you're a software engineer is they agree on a standard right for strangling the information. How do we call the information and then we discussed for about two years what the letter will be with us more this I want this one no this is an American and if not to the Europeans you know we don't use this one and it's been just terribly discussion until the day we decided as a company. OK let's have that discussion. You use whatever format you want as long as it's morning. And so we chose it between five and 10 core standards and. Then suddenly that project went home because of the post that uses the stand that they wanted and then suddenly doctors or so and then suddenly everything was the information was flowing with the way the cost to that because of the company we had to do the change of format ourselves. And we did that for the most popular form formats. But yes this is a good example where in theory it is very obvious that you should choose one the one single standard. But in practice it's unfortunately better if you just use some kind of a chaotic situation in the situation that is so that just one example that there's the others do not.

Saul Marquez: [00:16:32] That's great. Thanks for sharing that and CNN listeners you always have to keep your mind open. Oftentimes in fact I think most of the time the things that you try first are not going to work. You're going to have to keep an open mind and leave idealism to the side and get practical and what Vincent and his team did was they got practical and even though meant more work. It meant adoption and in order for your project to succeed you need it to be adopted. And so Vincent that's amazing lesson that you learned them and now I really appreciate you sharing that with them. So Vincent you've obviously had that and then maybe you could tell us a little bit more about an exciting focus or project that you're working on.

Vincent Keunen: [00:17:13] Well yes well the protests are the most exciting one is the global Andaman7 project because when when my I was lucky to sell my previous company and got people like that. I was wondering where will be by my next project. And then I decided to do this and then project. And I wanted it to be big or nothing. So it's really ambitious. Right. And the goal is to really build a platform to give access to patients to as actors so be them. Hospitals doctors on the cure side but also also nurses of course. And then on the research side pharma companies or institutions all of those actors need more and more access to patients today because there is no unique standard. We were talking a bit earlier but because those smartphones are becoming ubiquitous so there's quite a number of deep changes in the landscape meaning that now there is a way I believe to have every patient strongly empowered with a smartphone or they're accessible to them and then we can then provide services on top of that Vandeman is not like it may it may seem from the outside. The simple app it's actually a combination of a map of course for both smartphone Andrroid and Apple but also tablets. But more importantly maybe what we call hip and hip for us is the health intermediation platform. It's a way to exchange data either between them and to then users or through API open API which we publish on our Web site to have an exchange of data between patients and the hospitals. Pharma company will see our role in clinical research immunizations or any kind of actor in the ad sector with a specific focus or yell with one very important thing for us is that the patient is in control the patient has access to their data and they're deciding what to do with it. And I think they're going to be treated well because the regulations both in Europe and in the U.S. always put constraints on everybody that is using data from somebody else. Right. So if you're a hospital or a doctor and there is or Hamma or research institutes you as constraints because you're using the data from patients. But as a patient you have access to all of your data and you can do whatever you want. And then it will be a good idea. But if you want you can put your hands together on the page. Nobody can prevent you from inside. They may not the best idea you have it right. So what that means is that the regulation is impeding most of the actors but when the patient is even the opposite the regulation is has been the patient has been deficient get access to their data and being in control of their data. But that's what we decided to do is to go through the patients. It's more difficult of course to convince millions of patients than to go to a few hundred hospitals. It's more difficult but it I think is the right way to do and it's the way that most people will be comfortable with because they decide to share the data and not all of the data that can decide what they share and they want to know why this year. And there's been studies. Right. With patients that were the one to show you if it's for specific research for kind of medication that would be useful. Yes of course I went to thing 85 percent of patients do that for me or so that's very clear. I'm very I insist a lot on my privacy and I'm not I'm not read that anybody with you and me or my medical data but if somebody is even a pharma company is it me. Would you share your desire for a new pill that we're working on that it's like cure leukemia which is the leukemi. I have. Of course I would be. I would agree to share. Right. Same for my son. Wait. As coma bone cancer but some company. We would like to have you want to feed the research on a new medication for that kind of condition that we shouldn't be. Right. Right. Right. You know why you share. I think patients who are ready to share and do good actually.

Saul Marquez: [00:21:29] Now I think that's really great. You know and what comes to mind is the you know like the 23 and me when you get the test they got the 23 and we and it's that sharing platform. Yeah I think that's when you know that it's going for a good cause. I think the majority like you said would say yes. Exactly. Now that's really interesting. So Vincent let's pretend you and I are building a medical leadership course on what it takes to be successful today. It's the one on the ABC of Vincent. And so we're going to write out a syllabus. There's four questions. It's going to be lightning round style say you know give me some quick responses to these and then we're going to finish with your all time favorite book for the listeners. You ready.

Vincent Keunen: [00:22:12] Well time to rethink how we think about it and should ask me anything to prepare.

Saul Marquez: [00:22:18] And maybe maybe it will be just an applicable book for the syllabus that we're creating here.

Saul Marquez: [00:22:24] Ok. So what is the best way to improve health care outcomes.

Vincent Keunen: [00:22:29] Patients. There.

Saul Marquez: [00:22:31] What is the biggest mistake or pitfall to avoid.

Vincent Keunen: [00:22:34] Only focus on the financial aspects has aspects has to come first and then the financial aspect.

Saul Marquez: [00:22:40] How do you stay relevant as an organization despite constant change.

Vincent Keunen: [00:22:44] Well change also you need to improve. You need to innovate you need to look at what others do and then keep on working to build new things.

Saul Marquez: [00:22:52] What is one area of focus that should drive everything in the organization.

Vincent Keunen: [00:22:57] If were talking about the health sector I think it's important that the patients wellness and patients health.

Saul Marquez: [00:23:03] Awesome. And finally Vincent What would you say the book that you add to the syllabus for the listeners.

Vincent Keunen: [00:23:09] Well the book you would mention is maybe the bit unusual it's not a bit of a battle of the choices or how to succeed or saw. I read a book about the heart from the Heart Institute about Project Viren and the proposal by that. Because it's a book that tells you the science between stress and pain and new ways to fight stress like meditation if you want. Are you worried about mindfulness. So the cardiac coherence and the heart laugh Institute has published that book that I think is the theory. It has been useful for me to control my stress during my period because I'm sitting here not a piece of cake usually right. And so yeah it wasn't very practical and at the same time it was very focused on well-being. And there was some science behind it. So I like the combination of these three.

Saul Marquez: [00:24:08] And what's the name of the book, Vincent.

Vincent Keunen: [00:24:09] So I think in English heart intelligence by the Heartmath Institute.

Saul Marquez: [00:24:15] Okay Heart Intelligence. No, it sounds great. we'll do is we'll dive into it get the actual book in link and so listeners don't worry about writing it down. Just go to outcomes rocket dot com slash Vincent and you're going to be able to find all of the show notes as well as the syllabus that we created for you right now and the book that was just recommended. Vincent, time flies when you're having fun. We're here to the end. And so I wanted to just ask that you share one closing thought with the listeners and then the best place where they could get hold of you.

Vincent Keunen: [00:24:49] Okay well thank you for the interview so to contact me go to Andaman7 website or you can send me an email on feel free to contact me. And yes my closing would be just Article 25 of the Human Rights Declaration. Everyone has a right to good health andwell-beingg for themselves and their family.

Saul Marquez: [00:25:13] That's outstanding. Vince and I know that you guys are going to do a phenomenal job with this platform and I'm just looking forward to staying in touch with you.

Vincent Keunen: [00:25:21] Thank you, Saul, thank you for your time and thank you for interviewing me. Thank you.

: [00:25:29] Thanks for listening to the outcomes Rockett podcast. Be sure to visit us on the web at for the show notes, resources, inspiration and so much more.

Recommended Book/s:

Heart Intelligence: Connecting with the Intuitive Guidance of the Heart

The Best Way To Contact Vincent:

Mentioned Link/s:

Episode Sponsors:
Healthcare Podcast
Outcomes Rocket Podcast

Healthcare Podcast

Recommended Book/s:

Getting Things Done: The Art of Stress-Free Productivity

The Best Way To Contact Stephanie:

+1 917-428-2509

Episode Sponsors:

Healthcare Podcast

Healthcare Podcast

Healthcare Podcast

Recommended Book/s:

Ender's Game

The Best Way To Contact Jim:

Episode Sponsors:

Healthcare Podcast

Healthcare Podcast

Healthcare Podcast

Recommended Book/s:

Zero to One: Notes on Startups, or How to Build the Future

Link/s mentioned:



Episode Sponsors:

Healthcare Podcast

Opioid Epidemic

Emily Lindemer completed her PhD in the Harvard-MIT Health Sciences & Technology program, using MRI to study structural brain changes that occur in Alzheimer’s disease. In addition, she is the co-founder of a behavioral modification application aimed at helping individuals in recovery for opioid addiction called Hey,Charlie. She was the executive co-chair of Graduate Women at MIT and a strong advocate for girls and women in STEM.

Why Healthcare? I started in neuroscience research. When I finish my undergrad, I worked at the Boston VA healthcare system. One thing I realized working directly with patients was I saw myself working in clinical research.

Hot Topic that should healthcare leaders agenda:  Idea of translation

How have you created results by doing things differently? What we do in  Hey, Charlie is take a scientific approach to proving efficacy and outcomes through IOD back studies with actual patients.

Setbacks that you learned from: More of a challenge – there are huge social barriers to people in the country.

Proudest leadership moments: Every single time that I’m able to talk to patients, no matter how big or small in a way that I feel they’re open to talk about the problem and solution makes really most proud.

Exciting Project: 1) Studying – focus on user experience 2) Big data that will help us clinically integrate – platform for healthcare providers

Emily 101 Course on Outcomes Improvement:

1.What is the best way to improve healthcare outcomes?

Talk to your end users as much as you possibly as you can

2. What is the biggest mistake or pitfall to avoid?

Not willing to be flexible

3. How do you stay relevant as an organization despite constant change?

Talk to as many people as we can at all times

4. One area of focus that should drive everything else is:

The mission

Recommended Book/s:

Dreamland: The True Tale of America’s Opiate Epidemic

Closing Thought:

If you have an amazing idea, just do it. Don’t be afraid.

The Best Way To Contact Emily:

Link/s mentioned:

Thanks to our Sponsors:

Click below to register your .health domain before someone else does!

OR038 Restoring the American Dream with Dave Chase, Founder, Health Rosetta Institute

Dave Chase is a Health Rosetta co-founder focused on the problem that healthcare has become an extractive industry taking resources from what drives 80% of outcomes (education, economic opportunity, public health, healthy behaviors, public safety, clean air and clean water). Recognizing we didn’t get better lighting in homes and cities by optimizing oil lamp technology, the Health Rosetta is an open source blueprint for the Regenerative Health Era.

Chase’s TEDx talk “Healthcare Stole the American Dream – Here’s How We Take it Back” sums up healthcare’s devastation of the middle class & redemption coming via a bottom-up movement. Chase reached 750,000 people through his writing & speaking in 2016.

Chase was the Co-founder of Avado, acquired by & integrated into WebMD/Medscape (the most widely used healthcare professional site). Earlier, Chase founded Microsoft’s $2B, 28,000 partner healthcare ecosystem.

Chase is a father of two student athletes, husband & oxygen-fueled mountain athlete. Dave was a former PAC-12 800 Meter competitor.

Why healthcare? Initially, it was just being a young consultant and being put on a healthcare plan. It wasn’t a master plan but they like the feel and they like the people I was working with. Many years later, I’m still all in.

Hot Topic that should healthcare leaders agenda: Different levels of toxicity in healthcare.

Can you give an example of how you’re providing transparency through Health Rosetta? We came up with a framework we call health 3.0. We laid out the right way to organize healthcare. Health Rosetta is like a roadmap on the journey to the health 3.0 vision. Health Rosetta gets a simple thing on the transparency not only on the price but a transparent bundled price for the necessary procedure.

Closing Thought:

Healthcare isn’t going to get fixed from the top – down. All of us have a role to play.

The Best Way To Contact Dave:

Twitter – @chasedave

LinkedIn – Dave Chase

Link/s mentioned:

Accessible Healthcare with Louis Auguste, Founder at AlexaPath and Impact Fellow at Singularity U

Lou Auguste is the Founder and CEO of Alexapath. Auguste is an entrepreneur in residence at NYU’s Tandon School of Engineering as well as a Global Impact Fellow at Singularity U and a graduate of the Global Social Benefit Institute (GSBI). Alexapath are the winners of the ASME award for Best Hardware Prototype and the USISTEF award for health research in India.

In 2010, after 10 years as a freelance camera man, Lou travelled to Haiti as a videographer for CNN. Two days after arriving he put down the camera and began working to save lives. Thanks to investments from the British Medical Journal and the UK Technology Strategy Board, Auguste was able to begin the research that led him to invent mobile Whole Slide Imaging.

Alexapath is an early stage medical device research and development company. Their product has been dubbed Skype for microscopes. Clinical trials with Northwell Health started in 2015, and initial results were presented at USCAP 2016, full publication expected in 2017.

Why healthcare? My father was a doctor and my mom was a nurse, it’s something that is always close to me. I thought of becoming a doctor but decided that it’s not what I want to take in life.

Hot Topic that should healthcare leaders agenda: Accessible healthcare

Setbacks that you learned from: Monetary gap

Proudest leadership moment: Last year we did an experiment on breast cancer diagnosis. We had 100 patients diagnosed. We built relationship by working with other organizations.

Lou 101 Course on Outcomes Improvement:

1.What is the best way to improve healthcare outcomes?


2. What is the biggest mistake or pitfall to avoid?

Working with people who don’t share the same vision

3. How do you stay relevant as an organization despite constant change?

Sticking to your vision

4. One area of focus that should drive everything else is:

Developing customer base

Recommended Book/s:

Scrum: The Art of Doing Twice the Work in Half the Time

Closing Thought: We are now focused on working with other companies in creating a system that can work anywhere.

The Best Way To Contact Lou:

Link/s mentioned:

OR028 How Reforming Medical Education Will Lead To Improved Outcomes with Arlen Meyers President and CEO, Society of Physician Entrepreneurs

Arlen Meyers is a professor emeritus of otolaryngology, dentistry, and engineering at the University of Colorado School of Medicine and the Colorado School of Public Health and President and CEO of the Society of Physician Entrepreneurs at . He has created several medical device and digital health companies. Most of them failed. His primary research centers around biomedical and health innovation and entrepreneurship and life science technology commercialization.

He consults for and speak to companies, governments, colleges and universities around the world who need my expertise and contacts in the areas of bio entrepreneurship, bioscience, healthcare, healthcare IT, medical tourism — nationally and internationally, new product development, product design, and financing new ventures.

In addition, he is  a faculty member at the University of Colorado Denver Graduate School and Direct the Program in Biomedical Entrepreneurship at the Jabs Center for Entrepreneurship at the University of Colorado Denver Business School and an iCorps participant and trainer

He is the Chief Medical Officer at and

He is honored to be named by Modern Healthcare as one of the 50 Most Influential Physician Executives of 2011 and nominated in 2012 and Best Doctors 2013

Hot Topic that should healthcare leaders agenda: How reforming medical education will lead to improved outcomes

Setbacks that you learned from: Not creating products that anybody wants to buy and not having a viable business model.

Exciting project: Providing education, resources, mentors, networks, experience and social support system through an international chapter network.

Arlen 101 Course on Outcomes Improvement:

1.What is the best way to improve healthcare outcomes?

Measure them. Create a valid, reliable agreed upon outcome measures for all sort of things.

2. What is the biggest mistake or pitfall to avoid?

Thinking that the letters after your name will get you where you wanna go as an entrepreneur.

3. How do you stay relevant as an organization despite constant change?

Develop entrepreneurial habits.

4. One area of focus that should drive everything else is:

User-defined value.

Recommended Book/s:

In Search of excellence

The Five Dysfunctions of a Team

Closing Thought: Unless physicians become part of the solution they are the problem.

The Best Way To Contact Arlen:

Email –

Linkedin – Arlen Meyers

Link/s mentioned:

Alex Fair is a health innovation community leader, product developer, executive, public speaker, and business developer.  With the help of some fantastic people, he has had the great good fortune to have built, managed and done some interesting things. Here are a few of his favorites include MedStartr, HealthCareMD among others which can be found on his LinkedIn profile.

HERE is YOUR INVITATION: The MedStartr Challenge in November!

  1. If before Nov 30th, 2017, visit:
  2. If after November 30th, visit:

Here’s what you and your team can win!!

$250,000 in funding

$100,000 from Amazon

$10,000 from Mad Pow

1-week accelerator

2 years of support from MedStartr

The Best Way To Contact Alex:

Office Phone – 530-633-7827

Email –

Alex’s Show Notes:

Why healthcare? Started with studying philosophy but after having seen several of his family members die of cancer, he wanted to do something more proximal and directly impactful in healthcare.

Hot Topic that should healthcare leaders agenda: Innovation in large companies can be challenging.  Keep your eyes on the “3 guys and the dog”.  They’re innovating and can help you innovate too.

Exciting project: Working to get 8 new companies in the portfolio.

Closing Thought: Keep Innovating.  No matter who you are or what you do, don’t be afraid to wander and keep creating things.