How Remote Patient Research is Improving Outcomes and Simplifying Clinical Trials with John Reites, Chief Product Officer @ THREAD research
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: Welcome back once again to the Outcomes Rocket podcasts where we chat with today's most successful and inspiring health leaders. I really want to thank you for tuning in today again and I welcome you to go to outcomesrocket.health/reviews so you could rate and review today's leader because he is an amazing contributor to Healthcare. His name is John Reites. He's a Chief Product Officer at THREAD where they help Pharma, CROs and researchers to conduct remote patient research. Their focus is definitely in digital health and fixing the way that these things are done in a more efficient way for patients as well as for the people conducting the research platform. And so he's had 15 years of healthcare experience among his other duties. He's the adviser at Blue Door health as well as you know he's been a guest lecturer at Duke University and in his previous life was a Head of Digital Health Acceleration at Quintiles. So really want to welcome you to the podcast John, excited to get the conversation started.
: Thanks Saul, thanks for having me. I really appreciate you doing the podcast. I love listening and I appreciate the work you're doing. So excited about the conversation that's going to be fun.
: Thanks John. So did I miss anything in that intro that you want to share with the listeners about yourself?
: Yes. You know I also have a life. And...
: What's that?
: You know... no. In this world we live in right there's so much to be done in health care. There's so much work we have to do. But at the same time it's super important. And I was reminded of this week that's just important for us to support help as it is for us to focus on our health. And I'm saying that because I have to go to the gym tonight so I'm motivating myself before we go.
: There you go. There you go. Get those juices flowing because you're going to be at the gym tonight baby.
: There you go.
: I love it. No it's good. You know that's such a good point, John. It's worth it's worth parking there for a second. Like we spend so much time trying to get other people healthy, trying to make our health care system work that, are we taking care of ourselves?
: Yeah. And it's funny I just found it today. You know, the business that threads in the work I do every day is helping customers to do remote and virtual research. So you know we're trying to help connect people to contribute to research in their home. But at the same time one of my customers said, Yeah and our patients are on the go because they were collecting data on an Apple watch and one of our apps living their lives and I said oh my gosh I haven't been out of my house in three days with my watch. And that's why my results are so terrible so it's just a good reminder that as we worked inpactthis road you're right we have to make sure we do it for ourselves too. And I know too many busy entrepreneurs that are doing amazing work in this space that we just have to keep reminding ourselves to stop for a minute and take care of what matters which is our health and our families also. It's a great point.
: Now it's a great reminder John so appreciate you bringing that up. What would you say got you into health care to begin with?
: Yes so I'll make a funny long story short as possible. I just fell into it. I didn't go to school to get into health care. I didn't get a degree in anything related to life sciences. My degree was actually in communications and PR and marketing. And frankly I was going to do communications or I was going to be in a in our rep for touring bands and apparently what I learned in college was that if you don't know people and have those connections coming out you're not going to be able to get that job out of school. And so through a series of events I ended up interviewing at Quintiles which is a global CRO and I interviewed because my wife knewan executive there and she got me an interview and I didn't really know if I'd get the job. But great thing was that night I got the job. Funny story as I learned about everything I need to know about Klinker research three days before the interview apparently must've done a good job talking my way through that position to get it and learned everything that I really know about the sector by doing it in a job. And I was chief paper pusher when I started like that my first job was I pushed files around and so I did every piece of small work that I could do to really understand the business from its highest points just sort of its the low things that everybody has to do to really move things forward. So it was good character building exercise but I really fell into it. I didn't sort of make this conscious decision coming out that I wanted to impact healthcare on day one.
: I think that's so cool that you fell into it but you've stuck with it. It's obviously something that has resonated with you and has moved you to continue doing it.
: Yeah it's because you know I think we have this advantage that sometimes we forget about in our industry. There's a lot of people who do a lot of amazing things to contribute to society. But one of the ways that we do we can actually see tangible benefits is contributing to research and development of drugs and medicine and products and devices and being able to see that firsthand and see people because of your work result you know having positive results. I think it's really powerful and we have this advantage that we live in this world we can impact people in a short period of time with something really monumental. So I think that I'm glad I fell into it because it's what I'm passionate about and it's what gets me excited. And you know amongst a lot of things we could all do as you know a lot of people in life sciences are really smart individuals there's a lot they can do. But having a passion for people and having a passion to care for people through this clinical research or health care in general I think there's a great mission that we need a lot of people to have in their lives.
: I love it John. I totally agree and you know I think their strength in communication is is a strength that is very much needed in healthcare and in any other area. And the other thing you mentioned is the importance of knowing people and just the little tidbit that I want to offer to the listeners is that get out there and meet the people come stand behind your LinkedIn or your Twitter or even e-mail for that matter like go to a conference or go to a local meetup and press the flesh and then you'll be amazed how much farther that will take your mission rather than just hiding behind your accounts which is not bad right. We could do that. But it's also important to do like John said just get out there and meet the people. So John what would you say a hot topic that needs to be an every medical leaders agenda today and how are you guys addressing it?
: Yeah. So the hottest topic for me is how you do virtual research. Right. So how do we take clinical research because that's what we specialize in. That's what thread does. How do we take clinical research and start to virtualize elements of it to make it either more conducive to a person's lifestyle or to collect more data continuously in between clinic visits or frankly to new types of data in the real world that we haven't really been able to collect when they come into a controlled environment. So I think that every healthcare leader today sees that the technology landscape is helping us to move healthcare to more remote and virtual models. And so I think that I would tell you just because I see it everyday and I see the positive impacts. But I'm also learning a lot of the lessons of actually doing this work day in and day out that. It used to be on our radar but at the same time to it there's this mentality that I'd say that I think we really need to take which is is that this is all a journey, it's not a destination that we drive to tomorrow in other words there's a really defined sort of crawl-walk-run that I think we can all take as an industry to start to virtualize components of clinical research. And some people are not ready to do that, right. Some people are just saying Hey I just want to give my patients apps. I want to be able to collect e pro or remind them of things or hook a sensor or a medical device to something. I just want to do something kind of simple to start because I'm not really ready to go all in and virtualize every one of my clinic visits. And I think we need to understand that not everybody is there and that there's a lot of different sort of tolerances in those models. And so what I would say is in doing these things differently I think it's really important that we understand there's a crawl-walk-run into this that it doesn't all have to happen overnight but it's something that we need to start doing today because it is happening. It is working and the lessons learned that you will learn from doing it are much more positive than me telling you what I learned over the last several years. So that's what I'd say is really the hot topic but also the area of focus that I think every medical leader really needs to have in their tool bag today or really be thinking about how to start implementing this type of work.
: That's really fascinating, John and anything that comes to mind as you walk us through your expertise here is the clientele that you serve. Are you working with providers and also pharma companies like what are your customers look like?
: Yes good question. So first off the people that we can help the people that we unable to do remote are virtual research is anybody that wants to do remote or virtual research. Our customer base has come really out of that focus that we have and so we are supporting pharma - large to small, CROs from large to small, nonprofits, providers, academic researchers and sort of a number of different customer types in between those. So again if somebody is trying to do remote or virtual research the way the technology works the way the engagement can work actually has a lot more similarities and differences. And you really see that when you win when you look at some of the work we've done in clinical research and then some more like late stage clinical research that actually has some care modeling in it or digital care plan so more clinical to commercial integration. And so irrespective of sort of where someone's at in the type of research they're doing and we're trying to service all of those customers with a standard way of doing this type of remote research with people.
: Fascinating. So let's take it a step deeper. Can you give us an example of how you and your team have improved outcomes maybe a case scenario?
: Yeah. So I'll be careful because a lot of that even though we have a lot of public work there's actually a lot of work that we have to wait for that to be made public. But some of the things that I really like are lately with some of our customers more in the Foremans and side. We've been able to take like a study protocol that has say 12 visits in it. And as you know once you do clinical research study with 12 and clinic visits that study starts to get personally really expensive. Right. So once you add 300 patients and you got to direct them there and then do these visits again the price and sort of the time and the commitment a patient has to have. That research really goes up and we've been able to work with some customers to keep meeting their endpoints to continue to meet their primary secondary exploritoriants. Exploritoriants points but do it in a way that they took those 12 visits and made it 8. And so they made eight clinic visits and they took four and made them virtual in this one example study example and to give you. So in doing that they were able to reduce cost and say hey now patient in my study you only get to come in eight times not 12 to 60. And if you have some issue we can actually do this work via telehealth with you when you're at your home. And so what we did is the outcomes that we produced is helping for the same, the same research outcomes to being that but also reduce the burden for the researcher and the providers, the sites and also reduce the burden for the patients to participate. And frankly gave them a tool so they have their own app that has some other engagement, content and some support services in it so they can be supported throughout the study and be frankly constantly reminded that they're are part of something bigger and so being able to sort of add value to those stakeholders while also helping them to meet the endpoints they have in their study really brought a lot of different outcomes very positively to a number of those takeovers, so hopefully that makes sense. But that's one example.
: Yeah you know and one of the things that I've seen with digital companies like thread that are successful is that they take an antiquated process, they remove steps, simplify it, and make it cheaper. And it sounds like that's exactly what you guys are doing.
: That is. And I want to say too that we're doing it and learning right like nobody's. Anybody who says I've built the perfect model to do engagement of stakeholders is a liar and you should run. And I'm not saying that because it's true. Yeah because we're all learning and just like we contribute to research we're all researchers ourselves. And we're making what I call successful mistakes all the time and they're not detrimental things we're just going to people don't respond well to that. Yeah maybe this thing has four clicks and it should have two. And that's the kind of learning that that we have to be very transparent of and are especially in our industry to say hey these are small sort of failures or things that need to be tweaked to be done better but we're going to optimize them. We're fixing it in real time. And frankly that's no different than the same experience that our stakeholders like patients and providers and sites. They all do that in their daily lives with every other branded entity they engage with from Amazon to Disney to ESPN. Right. These guys are learning and changing and modeling and I think that there's a lesson to be learned for our industry from consumer products in that we have to try things and then optimize when they work and optimize when they don't work as well as we want them to. And I think that for me that's the other piece is that as you're doing this work where you have to constantly be learning and constantly be listening. Like you mentioned earlier it because people will tell you what they like and what they don't like it doesn't mean that your products bad it doesn't mean that that that's maybe a change you need to make at a high level. But what it does mean is that when you're listening you're making sure that you're not in love with the how you run your business and you're not in love with your product; you're in love with the fact that it can actually change the industry you're in love with the fact that it actually improve outcomes for people. And I think that's the piece that we have to truly swallow when we're trying to be entrepreneurial in this type of work.
: That's really great John and I love that you highlight this importance of listening to the market. There's book hug your haters. I don't know if you ever heard.
: It's on my reading list. Did you like it?
: It was great man. It was great. And it basically boils down to what you just said John is that we've got to be open to that critical feedback especially from our current customers like if they speak up it probably means that other people are feeling or seeing the things that they're saying but they just want to speak up. So listen to them and take it to heart.
: Actually agree. Yeah and that feedback priceless like an old mentor of mine told me once that two statements that I like here one is if you don't have people that absolute love you and people that absolutely hate you in whatever you're doing you're probably not doing the right thing. Nice. The second thing though they said was this person said if you get on with a customer and you show them how you do your business and they just smile non say thank you. You failed because they don't care about your thing. He said if they get really passion about what your product doesn't have or what you're not doing it means that they see how your what you do solve the problem and they want to contribute to it with their voice. And so I think that from my perspective I totally agree. So I mean you hit the nail on the head that that feedback is not a bad thing. Feedback's actually a great thing and when people are giving it to you it probably means you're doing the right thing. And I think we have to take that to heart too to not be offended by that but the taking. OK let's look at how we can apply it and that's a learning system. And we always talk about the learning healthcare system I think we as an industry can really move that forward by listening and reacting.
: I think it's so great. Thanks for sharing those those nuggets of wisdom that your mentor shared with you. Now you're sharing with us. Obviously it's working. You're doing very well with this company. Talk to us about a setback or a failure John and what you learned from that particular moment.
: How long is this show? Yeah. Ok so that's one of the things that was really impactful for me personally and I know a couple of our team at it too was I just remember we're building this app and Web platform off our platform for patients to come in and essentially do a really large registry. In the registry we had gotten some insights from patients from people that would be enrolled to sort of figure out what engagement content and maybe what features or functionality would help support them to not just be supported by the study but to also continue to use this app in this case and in the list of features there was this one feature and I was like yeah that's fine. No one cares about that. That's not that big a deal is not put a big emphasis on it and people thought me on and said I think we should and we kind of did like a really MVP version of it real minimum viable product version. And funny enough all the patients ended up using that feature the most and basically kept saying when are you going to improve this when you going to make this better. And so again kind of going like that listening concept sometimes. I've made a lot of mistakes by assuming that I know people and again getting better that you know now that we actually meet with patients and sites and so many people have seen our platform now you know there's a lot that you work out and that you feel if you get a good handle on but I just think it's like we talking about that feedback loop. I think I've in the past made that mistake of not just not sending putting something out there or listening to feedback or not or making an assumption that maybe I thought I had because I knew it all. I should do. And so that was just one of the examples that I always kind of hits me and makes me grounded make sure that I remember that feedback is important.
: That's awesome John. Thanks for sharing that story. And it's just one of those things right. Don't assume. Make sure you dive deeper and question those those assumptions that you're making. And you know what though the good thing Jan is that you included it you included it you didn't exclude it.
: That's true.
: You could have kept it out all together.
: That's true. Yeah. And that's because like our team is awesome and they're much smarter and aggressive than me and good for them. They pushed it. So yeah it's a great point but I think we'll get it. I think that's the one I think about these lessons. I think so many of them have been because either I just didn't have my ears open or I wasn't - like you said I wasn't asking the right questions, coming to a result. I was making an assumption first and I think that's something that I'm learning and trying to build that part of character for me. You know for the long term.
: Yeah John and the other thing too is it's a testament to the culture that you've built there with your team right. If you've got a team that feels comfortable pushing back that's the type of innovative culture that will succeed. You know people that are not afraid to get out of their comfort zone and make suggestions and hold their ground.
: Yeah and I've got to say like I I've been really fortunate to work with so many teams over my history that have had that mentality or people that I could come into I was one of the puzzle pieces of a good team or a great team. I mean even today like you know our team at Thread this is the cultural mindset they have right. And it's really cool to see. I see like Kevin and Cho and Todd and Sean like people that will jump in and say hey I don't think that's a good idea. We learned this. It should probably look like that. So people are really jump in because they want to make something better because of what they listen to because of the experience and they can make better. And frankly to you I think the second piece is is that you're never satisfied with making something better. Right. We don't build something and stop like no no no. How do we continue to measure this. How do we get data to make this better. How do we continue to listen those customers to make you know not just moving a button but making sure that this is easy for them to use. This solves a problem for them and no, so I totally agree and I'm really fortunate that that's the kind of people I get to work with everyday. They're great.
: That's awesome John and yeah you know my my mind goes back to that example that you gave us about you're sitting in front of a customer and you're telling them about the problems you can solve the solutions and they're not passionately tell you. Yeah this is great. Or actually change this. The same thing goes, leaders, listening to this. If your team is just sitting quiet on that call or if they're just sitting quiet after that meeting are you missing something? Are you missing something? Or can you somehow figure out a way to get feedback from them? Give them a little bit more ownership because I think this could go just as much externally as John illustrated as well as internally.
: Yeah that's a good point. And like I just think Olga on our team she's our heads up our quality group and I think too, you know so many people sort of come to meetings and they think oh will these individuals will be allowed in these individual be quiet but being able to empower our entire team of Olgas super the most detail oriented person I know. And so she would come in and look at certain components of what we're doing and say this is not passing, this needs to be fixed. And so I think to enable and like you said the entire team regardless of their role to be able to be empowered to jump in and make those statements ultimately gets you where you want to go faster. But also in more detail.
: Love it. What would you say one of your proudest medical leadership experiences to date is, John?
: There was this one time that when my son was really young just a couple years old and he was...
: How old is he?
: So now he's 10. So he's been a while and I just remember he was having he was having breathing problems I think it was at preschool or something running around having breathing problems. And we went in to see the pediatrician and I went with my wife to the appointment because I was I just remember being a little bit young parent as my first child, I'm freaked out. Let's be honest right. And I think like the world's going to crash down.
: I'm right there, John. My son is one, so.
: There you go you learn that you're living it.
: Yeah, I'm living it so I know what you know.
: And it's that's raw math and I just remember just being panicked and our who was amazing. You know came in and said hey it's going to be fine. Here's what you know we did these tests and this what we found. And there's this great new treatment that just hit the market and it's this dissolvable pill for children that does X and I literally looked at the label and I went, Oh my gosh I ran those clinical trials.
: No kidding.
: And I couldn't for NDAs other things I couldn't say and I couldn't say it in a room but I got so excited I was like, me. Like I did, I was a part of that. And so I guess for me yeah you know there's there's just a few instances over my career work where you kind of saw like your research you do work that will result in something potentially positive but maybe a drug gets killed but you contribute something it may not be in the market for 5 to 10 years. And so to see something completely go to the cycle and prescribe your own son was really impactful for me right like I went, awesome that's what I'm I'm a part of something and look at what it just did for my family. So lots of those kind of aha moments. That's one that I'll never forget because it it made me felt like I was doing the right thing. I was a part of the...
: Full Circle.
: And your son. He's doing much better now.
: Oh yeah. No he's totally good. Unstoppable so no we're we're good work. You were filming were you were taping this right during March Madness right. Right. Steadily tournament. And if you didn't guess from my profile were big Duke fans. So this is our this is our moment right here. So will either be very happy or crying furiously in the few days depending on the results of games.
: I got my fingers crossed for you rather man. That's great man. So thank you for sharing that very personal story. And just amazing write John, I mean don't underestimate the ripple effect of the actions you take in this in this field.
: Yeah that's right. No. And again like we're doing something impactful right. And I think that sometimes we were just we get in the paperwork we get in the red tape we get in the mix of the business that if we're not careful we don't step back little bit we'll actually miss the best part about our careers is that where we're impacting people's health. We're helping people to live longer to have more enjoyable and prosperous lives. Like I just can't say that enough said I have to remind myself of that too because I'm completely guilty of getting in my hole sitting in my chair and banging away on things. But we had this really amazing opportunity and frankly the reason I teach and the reason I'm trying to invest in other people is that there's this this next generation we have coming up that they're trying to find what they want to do is there especially as some of these younger individuals are really focused on social causes and they want to impact people more directly. What a great place to do that then in healthcare you just have to understand that it's part business right and it's part of this being able to impact people right and those two things go hand in hand and you have to use the system to both have its advantages and so I'm I'm excited about who's coming up but also know that it's our all of our jobs leaders who listen to your podcasts it's a really invest in the next generation and our own employees to make sure that they're getting the opportunities they have out there understanding what they're contributing to overall. I you know I feel like I didn't really realize that just a couple of years into my career when somebody sat me down and said, Do you realize the kind of impact you can have in the world by being in this in healthcare? So anyways for what it's worth it's just an encouraging piece. I think we all need the reminded of that.
: Yeah it's a great message John and it's definitely helped those that are coming behind us have successful careers and show them the way just like those that helped us as we were coming up showed us what a today is an exciting project. Obviously Thread is exciting but within thread an exciting project that you're working on?
: There's a lot of them. Some of the projects I guess if I had to pinpoint two specifically there's one I like where we're we're taking clinical trials and making them virtual. So we're using sort of all the different features and functionality that you have available in digital health and putting them all into one package on our platform so that you can actually conduct the virtual visits, remote data capture, engage people, make the sites experience better. So again kind of going after how do we change the whole research study model by introducing all these different technological advancements and so that that gets me excited. It doesn't mean that it's perfect. It means that they're still learning that has to happen but not to seeing one of these seeing lots of these gets me excited because it shows a shift really happening in our perception of this type of work but also in understanding that our constituents right the stakeholders are trying to survey sites providers patients are asking for this and they're willing to do it. We're the ones typically in the way to making it happen.
: For sure.
: So that's one of the projects. The other ones that I'm really excited about are some of these more longitudinal programs that typically happen in like later phase studies or commercial programs where we're able to connect you know medical devices the prothese can sense different solutions all together in one nice package for a patient so that they can really simply get into a study and contribute to it for a long period of time. Some of the first studies we really started supporting in this model you know are now in three you know three years out. So you start to see longitudinal benefit launch outcomes from from really these mobile enables studies really starting to come to fruition like data start to come out and be present at conferences. And for us you know that that research side gets us excited. So I think those two types of study models are really exciting and nothing gets me excited more frankly than people coming to us to ask about how to do them and knowing that they don't have to have all the answers but being willing to do them I think has been a big change the last five years in our industry specifically.
: That's super super exciting John and listeners if you want to check them out go to threadresearch.com you'll find all of just the things that they're doing and also will include a link to their company and are show notes so that you could just check out the show notes and pick it up there. So John, getting close to the end here. Let's pretend you and I are building a leadership course on what it takes to be successful in healthcare business today. It's the 101 of John Reites and so I've got four questions lightning round style for you followed by a book and a podcast that you recommend to the listeners. You ready?
: Do it.
: Awesome. What's the best way to improve healthcare outcomes?
: To measure them.
: Hey man, this is a lightning round. Keep it simple. And we do have the measure to measure.
: I think we talk about the big ticket outcomes all the time but we aren't measuring all the things all the context around the outcomes. All the pieces that you know all the steps in the process to contribute an outcome like a result. So if you can't measure the context and everything is happening around that secure outcome I think we really come up short on being able to describe why we got the outcome we did not just that we did get it.
: Great point. What's the biggest mistake or pitfall to avoid?
: Again I think it's the biggest pitfall is probably probably thinking that you're the only one doing something. And the reason is I find a lot of folks come and say I know I'm the only one that's ever done this and I'm like No you're not sensitive doing this very similar. And so why don't you learn from their lessons. I think understanding that this community we have is helpful and that you're not a lot of times you're not the first one to do it. You might have your own unique flavor to it which is good but a lot of times there's other people to partner help you get there.
: How do you stay relevant as an organization despite constant change?
: Yeah. So status quo has a big X for us on the white board in the office. It really comes down to as we're doing this work staying ahead means actually doing it. In other words one of the things that we do is we work and we do the studies and we learn from them so that our lessons learned are actual lessons learned are not things that we think and I think we have to be really careful with that. The way to stay relevant is actually to do and learn and apply.
: What's an area of focus should drive everything in a health organization?
: Oh man. I think that high discussion that we talked about throughout this interview about how are we doing this right. That's sort of what's the big why behind all this the why is that we're all trying to make sure that our our lives and our kids and our grandkids lives are impacted by positive changes and updates health care. And so I think that if any company has a focus on that and they have a very specific big mission to contribute to that I think that's where it starts and I think a lot of times we get super tactical really fast and we miss out on the overall mission. Why am I actually waking up every day to make this change. And then how do we help contribute to that mission. I get to have both pieces.
: It's a great message. And finally John what book and what podcasts would you recommend to the listeners.
: Yeah. So there's a lot that I read there's two books in particular in the last few years that I would highly recommend everybody in our industry read. One is a book called Fascinate by Sally Hogshead.
: Ah okay, I've taken the Fascinate test.
: Yeah, it's awesome.
: I didn't hear about the book.
: Yes, fascinate.? Yeah it's it's a great book of the audio book on Audible is great too because Sally actually does it. I'm a big fan of hers. And it was really fun. And then the second book is Leaders Eat Last by Simon Sinek. And Simon Sinek is amazing speaker, consultant, sort of business mind but a really practical and I these are not books for clinical research or healthcare but they're books that I learned so much from that I could sort of apply to this work and so those are two that really stick out for me. When it comes to a podcast, the podcast I'm really really liking it's on the top of my list right now. It's called Masters of scale with Reid Hoffman and shout out to my buddy Chris who's actually one of the producers of the show. But Masters of scale is really a big podcast and it just talks about all these like really successful people and how not just how it started the business how they scaled it like how they work through changing an industry they were a part of and for us in the work we do a thread. It's really timely and so I really enjoy it. I highly recommend it.
: I think that's such a great recommendation. The books and the podcast and listeners you've got the syllabus as well as a transcript of what John Reites and I have just talked about. Just go to outcomesrocket.health /thread T H R E A D. You're going to be able to find all that there along with links to the books the podcasts the company and all the things that John just talked about. So this has been so much fun, John. I love if you could just share a closing thought and then the best place where the listeners could get in touch with you.
: Yeah it's great. So I really appreciate having me on today. It's been a blast and I like to come stations with people who are moving the needle and you're doing that and I really appreciate it. The closing thought I'd give is, is that as we look to where healthcare is going there is a movement that's happening and being able to work with people remotely and virtually all of our benefits. And so the closing thought I would say is that it doesn't mean that you have to wait for what you think the future is going to be. There is tactics and processes happening today that will help us start learning and implementing needs today. And as an industry to really keep up we have to take the baby steps right so you can crawl walk run into this work. So I think curves people to think about how they can crawl and what their risk tolerance and innovation tolerance is in that organization and just start doing something because that's where you're excited that's what you'll learn. That's what you'll put your personal stamp and fingerprints on things. The way that people get a hold of me personally, the best spot is probably LinkedIn. So it's just https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnreites/ and my email address is just firstname.lastname@example.org. But you want to message me on LinkedIn or connect I'd be great. I'd be happy to connect and just to get to know a fellow leader in the industry we're serving.
: John thanks again. We'll definitely include your contact information in the show notes as well and so on behalf of me and the listeners brother, really appreciate the time you took to walk us through your words of wisdom.
: Hey, Saul, thanks again man. I really appreciate it thanks for your time.
Thanks for tuning into the outcomes rocket podcast if you want the show notes, inspiration, transcripts and everything that we talked about on this episode. Just go to outcomesrocket.health. And again don't forget to check out the amazing Healthcare Thinkathon where we could get together took form the blueprint for the future of healthcare. You can find more information on that and how to get involved in our theme which is implementation is innovation. Just go to outcomesrocket.health/conference that's outcomesrocket.health/conference be one of the 200 that will participate. Looking forward to seeing you there.
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Best Way to Contact John: