Radically Improve Your Medical Education Now with Aaron Bright, CEO & Founder of Hippo Education, LLC
: [00:00:01] Welcome to the Outcomes Rocket podcast where we inspire collaborative thinking, improved outcomes and business success with today's most successful and inspiring healthcare leaders and influencers. And now your host, Saul Marquez
Saul Marquez: [00:00:18] Outcomes Rockett listeners welcome back once again to this show where we chat with today's most inspiring and successful health care leaders that I have an outstanding guest for you. His name is Aaron Bright. He's an emergency physician and he's also the CEO and founder of hippo education. That's like Hippocrates. And so what I wanted to do is just cannae extend a warm welcome to Aaron and have him fill in the gaps in the introduction here because he's got a lot of really cool experience to air and welcome to the podcast.
Aaron Bright: [00:00:51] Thank you for having me. Thank you very much. Yeah I know you've got to pretty much right that might have when you said successful and or the other thing you said successful.
Saul Marquez: [00:01:00] Inspiring.
Aaron Bright: [00:01:00] Yes I'm just I'm both of those things. But you know you've got to I'm an E.R. doctor by training I graduated from UCI medical school and went over to USC in Los Angeles to do some emergency training. And then after a long time of it in the community and various medical directorships and leadership stuff I got back into academics and then from there I ended up starting the company hippo where we are mostly focused on disrupting might be a cliche term but we're trying to turn the education of practicing doctors and clinicians on its head and hopefully to have that translate over to the health care administration side as well.
Saul Marquez: [00:01:38] I think that's really neat. So what principles guide the turning on the head type of things that you guys are doing.
Aaron Bright: [00:01:44] Yeah a lot of people who they might be familiar with this but what we found and the way I was talk about it is that you as a clinician and as a provider you're hopefully you when you're in training you've got you're kind of surrounded by mentors you're surrounded by kind of your heroes. Everything is on the up and up. The complete goal is patient care and your Hi5 and everybody all the time you do something cool and there's nine people behind you. And so you're kind of used to this mentors and geniuses surrounding you all the time. And then as you get past training and they dump you out in the real world that basically completely cuts off what you're left with is more of a seamy industry if you will it's not really that people are worried about education anymore that continuing education for doctors and clinicians becomes a hoop jump and more of a regulation you're required to do it. And so there's a lot of companies out there that were doing education that is maybe subpar in a lot of ways maybe is made by people who are not quite expert and then signed off on by chairs of departments and things so everybody who is trained classically in medicine actually knows that. And so what happens is you get this giant apathy you after you graduate you go where's all the education. Well you know what I'm going to keep my eye on him and read this giant stack of papers and I keep up and then you get bombarded by the system and then after a while everybody's self education system tends to fall apart.
Aaron Bright: [00:03:03] You end up pulling all those journals off your desk into the trash. And then you have this weird spiral where you go. I'd like to catch up. I know I'm supposed to be caught up. I'm getting behind. Then you have this weird shame and nobody talks about it and we think that contributes to burnout in all kinds of patient outcome problems and all kinds of financial problems it's just not as it's not as direct as you would see and maybe some of the other people you would talk to. But the foundation of patient outcomes and successful financial health care systems is the education of these people are on the frontlines and that's where so turning on its head by literally making better education. Caring about it having clinician people spearheading the education and designing the education and giving us what we want and even being more engaging in a little bit goofy and a little bit more human admitting when we don't know things taken apart that whole bow tie and lectern education model where you're just dry and you're going through the epidemiology and then you go into this and going through that. Where everybody falls asleep and it has to be an hour even if it's a five minute topic and all those things were ripe to be reworked. And so I think that's why people picked up on what we were doing and we we got pretty popular pretty fast.
Saul Marquez: [00:04:09] I think that's really interesting Erin and one of the things that you said that sticks out to me is this idea that elephants don't buy it mosquitoes and you're gone through the day to day and it's those little things that happen that all of a sudden just catch up to you. Right. And so what you guys have done there at hippo is just really take it to the next level and make it more fun by. OK. Providers are actually creating your content right. We know what's applicable because we're in the frontline.
Aaron Bright: [00:04:36] That's exactly right. It's it's weird or maybe surprising. It surprised me that that wasn't the norm. The norm is is not that at all and I'm not blaming anybody for trying to make great education with the resources they've got. It's pretty hard to find super talented clinician educator technology forward driven people who our time in their schedule all that stuff is really a challenge and so we just sort of were able to piece it together at the beginning and make something that people liked our first couple of chunks of education. And then from there we were able to expand but it's really unusual to have education that's not focused more on the CMA credit hour for the doctor or the clinician and more focused on the education with the credit our the afterthought you can't rely on on the system to guarantee that that great educations coming out there and so everybody had the same problem. We started in emergency medicine. We went to primary care in pediatrics and every place that we went we found the same kind of thing lacking.
Saul Marquez: [00:05:33] So your programs are resonating Aaron. And obviously education is key right to the focus that you guys are driving at hippo. But right you say if you wanted to dive deeper and get more granular what's a hot topic that you feel should be on every medical leaders agenda.
Aaron Bright: [00:05:48] You know that's really interesting. I'll give you the deep one it's deeper but a little still a theory. And that it's on everybody's tongue right now. But it's wellness and burnout sick. It's really tempting for leadership in health care scenarios that are you know nonmedical and are sort of maybe not practicing you know they are medical. To think that that burnout and that wellness is distant from them and make it feels a little bit touchy feely. We're just used to it. But we're finding on the ground level is that all of these various pieces of the system contribute to that burnout. And one of the biggest pieces is the sort of physician ground level clinician education and the gap in that education. So for instance I was talking to a CMO friend the other day and we're starting to do as I was saying earlier we're starting to do more education that aligns kind of what you call the hospital and system leadership with the ground troops. Traditionally we want to admit it or not admit it. There can be some animosity between these goals at the hospital has whether it be the mission or the or the bottom line are out and out. Yeah. And the goals of even the governmental organizations so you've got that surgeon general making some sort of initiative. Those are very hard. It's almost easier to translate if you're in leadership than to understand if you're on the ground. Frontline. Park because you're going to be working 70 hours a week and it's really hard for you understand why that initiative is there.
Aaron Bright: [00:07:15] All you see is a new form or a new stat or a new way to follow up. And so we've been focusing on on that. And one of the core pieces that ground troops tend to say is the command you give me this new form to fill out and I get it. Yeah we shouldn't have any Sedef around here and I would like to do as much as I possibly can to reduce our stats on having these infections but I'm exhausted and I'm burned out. And you give me another form and all I can see is the form. So the form nobody wants to have a form given to them. And I understand that we should all be working to minimize those forms and increase those efficiencies. But just finding a way to help those clinicians not be burned out gives you a massive a much larger level of buffer to tolerate those forms. And if you ignore the burn out and the wellness stuff it's to your own peril and then every time you change a tiniest little bit of the system as you know you've got cranky clinicians freaking out. So as granular as you're talking about that's a deep point and we're starting to see education start to focus on that and start to see the hospital leadership and the health care leadership start to pay attention to that in more than just lip service.
Saul Marquez: [00:08:23] Yeah Aaron. And it's really irrelevant all these requirements that EMR reporting the forms I mean what is the why behind all of these things and communicating it to the frontline and there's really a need for more leadership capabilities for that. You know let's just say that the medical directors are the clinical directors pushing it down.
Aaron Bright: [00:08:44] Yeah and that had given them a tool kit to do that. It's much I think that people don't understand the psychology the psychology of the difference between a hospital leader even if that leader was a clinician or a clinician so and somebody who's on the frontlines who may be a fantastic very productive clinical person. They're kind of different personalities.
Saul Marquez: [00:09:02] Totally.
Aaron Bright: [00:09:03] And when it makes sense to you as a leader may not be as obvious to you as it is maybe more obvious to you as it pertains to the purpose behind things than it is for these Gramp people and the toolkit that we're trying to make and that's why it all comes back to education for me even though it is my passion. But I really think it's important. There are ways to bridge that gap and it's not always obvious. And so giving people the tools and the education in a way to describe something to your ground troops can change completely and really turn around the numbers and really turn around the attitude that's around there and as you know that you saw one of those problems right. And the next problems easier you solved one of those problems wrong and you get an angry medical executive committee meeting. Then the next one is much harder.
Saul Marquez: [00:09:45] Yep. Now that's really good. And so Aaron give the listeners an example of a time that you guys have created results by changing some of this education.
Aaron Bright: [00:09:54] Yeah that's a good question too. We've done so as we say all of our education is made with the end user in mind you know a practicing clinician the frontline person and then we back it up from there. And having been on that on both sides me as a leadership in hospitals and me as as an educator and me as a as ground troops I think we kind of back it up from and so one of the things that we like to do and Bob doing for a long time is kind of targeted education based around performance measures in the hospital so it's we've done a lot of steamy stuff for MyoKardia infarction in order needle times and all these different things for ERs where we start with here's what we're supposed to do. Imagine if you will a clinician that that's your goal. Now how are you going to get that to be as efficient as possible knowing that you cannot set up your E.R. to do things like automatically activate the cath lab and automatically do is not regular. So you take the first step being let's describe the clinical needs and then the next step being how can your environment support that. And then the next step is how can your system support that and then the next step is how is your system supporting that and how is your system hardwiring it. And so we've done that and then have some pre and post data to show that that makes outsized differences.
Aaron Bright: [00:11:13] Things you wouldn't expect you'd think Geez all I did was really explain it differently.
Saul Marquez: [00:11:16] And it sounds like you guys are taking more of a systems approach where you're equipping the learner with instead of check the box exercise that helps you get your CMEs you're actually giving them a systems approach to a way to to address it and it makes it interactive and more useful.
Aaron Bright: [00:11:34] Yeah it does though though overarching theme there is that if you as an educator are dedicated to getting that information across in a true way and nothing to do CME hours or anything that just it comes I mean if you're doing good education you get plenty of CME the hours. If you're really looking at how to best make that information usable to these ground troops it's really easy to back up and see it from a system perspective and you know and make it more more real. One of the pieces that I think is most effective is sort of being a little more human about it and being not so much. Everybody understand this but you which is a typical kind of medical model. You know we say oh here's describe all this stuff but more to say look everybody has a hard time with this. Let's try to work together and figure it out. And what we're doing at Hippo's we're trying to build a community of it's even hard to explain but almost like conscious conscious learners where you know that they're not alone that there's a lot of people that don't understand this stuff or that need to keep up with this stuff.
Aaron Bright: [00:12:34] You take that as the baseline and then they're much more open to learning the reasons why they're going to do this or that. And we've found even people that go just don't have understood that before. And those people end up when they find themselves in leadership positions in a much stronger area. So the bottom line is education is one of those fundamentals that's really hard to focus on because it's you know maybe who are. However you do it in your hospital it's either kind of you've already got a system you're not really sure if it's working you're trusting that because you're getting CMA units maybe it is working but you're not sure. It's hard to focus on it because it feels like you can't see the change in outcomes so perfectly there's two or three steps but I would encourage people to. However you do it focus on really good education. Find it somehow and give it a little time to work and then just check things hard to follow those variables but check yourself six months after that education started you'd be surprised at how much turns room.
Saul Marquez: [00:13:27] Yeah for sure. And how about nursing. You guys do anything on the nursing side or is it. Is it mainly physician.
Aaron Bright: [00:13:32] We do some work for nursing and almost as a secret level. We don't have any products for nursing yet. We really love the field.
Saul Marquez: [00:13:41] I'm just thinking like alarm fatigue. Right. Yeah. Oh it happens a lot. So like things like that.
Aaron Bright: [00:13:47] Yeah alarm fatigue sort of teamwork. The new we're doing stuff now we're we're we're talking to people bigger systems where they're trying to align a much more forward thinking future thinking sophisticated way of dealing with the team right. So you've got a alarm fatigue that's nurses registered nurses only you have to listen to this alarm. That whole paradigm to your part of the team you're rounding with the clinician you're you know nobody's the hierarchy's so meaningless nowadays the information is so huge and there's so many mistakes that can happen with information passing from level to level that we're looking to you know things like alarm particular a really good example of a team being disjointed. So you've got documented lawsuits and things where you've got to know several different people who technically didn't need to hear that code Bell not to walk in right past the room because that's not their alarm. It's because the other nurse was you know someplace as a trigger. That's just ridiculous and needs a lot of subtle education about how that's more effective and can make everybody happy including the people that are supposed to be the boss having a much more sophisticated team is going to make the clinician's job way way easier. Yeah.
Saul Marquez: [00:14:55] So Aaron you've been on the frontline. You've been a medical leader and now you're the CEO of this really cool education company that helps improve outcomes by improving education. Give the listeners an example of a setback you've had and what you learned from it and kind of the pearls that you got out of it.
Aaron Bright: [00:15:14] That's a good one. You want a setback of business set. Are kind of a failure in our model. I can give you some setbacks. I got some of. What's most interesting.
Saul Marquez: [00:15:23] Anything related to maybe this theme of education since we're already on it.
Aaron Bright: [00:15:27] Yeah. I think that we've we've run into a few. I'm not sure if there are setbacks as much as their learning experiences where you're trying to figure out the best way to get education across to people. And what we started with early on is kind of doing everything that everybody else was doing. But with a little bit more human touch and a little bit more humor and a little bit more entertainment. And what we got was a lot of people very interested and I think what we initially decided was our first goal is like just don't let people fall asleep. That was all we were after were like just how many times have we missed a lecture and we dozed off and we know. And so we sort of put together that is are you were really proud of that and what we found was that while we were gaining customers we weren't really sure when we looked at the data and you sort of do pre-test and post-test and stuff like that. Were we getting this education across to people as much as we had hoped. And the answer was yes because they were awake which is a giant step forward. But the answer is you could probably do more. And I think that what we learned. For instance we were doing these sort of half hour to hour long lectures and we were doing a traditional outline where you introduced the problem you'd get some epidemiology you do this and your treatment and you're sort of comprehensive all the time. And we learned that not only did people not necessarily retaining that information but it wasn't something that wanted to retain on the tips of their fingers.
Aaron Bright: [00:16:47] That was stuff they could look up but you need to know how many type 2 diabetics failed that form and you can look that up. You don't have that. When Mrs. Smith comes into your office that's right. So what we ended up doing is we would take topics that are traditionally an hour long and distill it down to six seven minutes of even type stuff and none of the fluff. And then maybe do a deeper dive later for people that were just fascinated by that. And then we started to do that looking at how people were doing in and staying awake and not just staying awake but retaining that got a lot better so we keep doing these things where we'll try something and we'll go out and work and we'll we'll tweak it to the point where we're there we're more outside the norm at this point. We've got a we have a conference that we run called essentials of emergency medicine which is the biggest E.R. conference in the world really a single room there's a couple thousand people in this one room and we've found is that we have to we literally for three days and you know six to eight to nine hours a day are doing five to eight minute presentations. And we've got a stage set up and we will throw somebody up there in bang and I do an eight minute something to pull them back off there's two seconds of music in your bank. Put somebody else up there. And you would think that that would exhaust people. But it does the opposite it keeps them awake and it keeps them engaged.
Saul Marquez: [00:17:58] That's pretty cool. By the way I like that idea you know because anybody could make things seem complicated and long. It's talent and it takes skill to really hone it into what resonates most. So I'm intrigued that you actually do this for three days straight at your meeting.
Aaron Bright: [00:18:14] It's pretty impressive. Pretty cool. It took some time and it's one of those. It's one of those things that it sounds easy until you try to shuffle on forty five people a day.
Saul Marquez: [00:18:25] And so do you get pushed back from some of the speakers like Hey man I really need a half hour for this.
Aaron Bright: [00:18:30] We used to. And we don't as much anymore because the thing has been so popular is it basically has changed the entire paradigm of how you would do emergency medicine education and now the rest of the world is doing almost the exact same thing and we've sort of trained the E.R. docs at large that I don't have to listen at this hour so they don't do that. So now they don't complain. And what happened is this interesting side product which I think translates into outcomes in all levels of you know using education as the lighter fluid if you will to after all this change when you challenge the status quo in a way that makes sense not just to make everybody freak out but just to you know nobody wants to hear two hours on on diabetes from soup to nuts it's just impossible to absorb that. What we end up happening is now our speakers will come in our educators and they'll be very excited because they got to focus in on one little section of that that's most important to them clinically and make a tremendous it's hard to do good education in eight minutes and you have to have gone over it 200 times. You take away all of the crutches that we tend to use where you make a couple opening things you put a picture of Dilbert you like you know there's a whole different ways that people do it. We've taken that away and what we've found is that without even us having any talent about it we're being offered education that's so much better. So we're hope we're trying to get that into the rest of the world too. Same thing with humans you're talking about compliance issues. If you gave people a lie detector test nobody wants to hear that issue for an hour. Nobody.
Saul Marquez: [00:19:56] No, Aaron. I love this and I think comes raket listeners a thing that we could all pull from this is as leaders in this field. We have to be able to communicate simply. And if you have a mission, a vision, something that you want a common theme through the year distill it to that six or eight minutes that Aaron's talking about here and watch what happens. You know what happens to your people. They become owners of that word and it becomes an identity almost cultural shift that Aaron has created over there. Him and his team what this meeting sounds like a really cool one. I'd love to pop by sometime.
Aaron Bright: [00:20:34] You should come in a lot. It's very interesting to watch how excited people are. I think it's monkey brain stuff you can't stay excited for an hour about anything.
Saul Marquez: [00:20:42] Yeah. No it's true. And I've been like I've been to these meetings and some of them are good. But you can't help but just start pinching yourself. You know at the end of day one even sometimes.
Aaron Bright: [00:20:52] Yeah I think that's not even a reflection of these educators. I think a lot of times if you take a great educators used to doing an hour and you tell them you've got 15 minutes goal to comes out of that. It's all there and people remember it and they have good questions and you just never lose that focus. But yeah I think that's a good what you said is a really good way a simple way to say it which is to simplify and that simplification is the hardest part to write a 15 page diatribe about something is a lot easier than trying to get your point across in a couple of paragraphs. It's really hard but it forces you to go over it again and again and again and cut the fluff and cut the fluff and it's a good way to do almost everything. There are some things maybe airline pilot training maybe the timing of that almost two things.
Saul Marquez: [00:21:36] You don't want to put through this on, Aaron. And really good stuff man. And so can you share with the listeners maybe the other side of this. Give us a time or it's been one of the proudest moments that you've had in medicine.
Aaron Bright: [00:21:49] Yeah let's think about that. We've done a lot of stuff that we're proud of over here. I think one of the things that we're most proud of and it's a little bit more team oriented than anything educational or clinical but what we've done is that by adopting all this new way of educating as we've sparked interest by bigger organizations we have partnerships now with for instance rehabber. We do the AP board review test prep things that we do in partnership with AOPA which is a great organization for coalition assistance. We're working with some other people that I probably shouldn't expose before it happens but people are noticing and realizing that when they have a piece of their organization that is education focused but it's not their organizations focus that doing it on their own is a lot harder and a lot less productive than it seems. Krischer because we're not you know we're not looking to gouge anybody we've got it. We're very mission focused. We've been very excited to sort of see people pay attention and start to reach out and make partnerships with us and other people are really proud that people are noticing that. And I think watching honestly the most private thing that we have has happened since day one.
Aaron Bright: [00:23:00] But we have got to save every single comment that we get out of the tens of thousands of people that were learning things that are teaching things too. And the stuff that they say and makes you realize how important that education is to the individual person and how quickly the stuff that your listeners are doing and that we're doing translates to a bedside whether you had anything to do with medicine or not everybody that's in the health care system that's doing anything of any that has any focus on on outcomes translates down to my grandmother and your mom and us eventually to the bedside and it's sounds like fluff and cliche. It is not. And we have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of stories that people say I listen to this thing on your podcast. You know we have these primary care rap podcasts that we do as audio monthly education. I listen to this thing on primary care rap and then the next day I saw this and I went to the hospital and this person and we change the entire management that's so rewarding that most of us would do it even if we were not as successful as we are and so that's really what we're doing it for.
Saul Marquez: [00:24:08] Yeah I think that's great. And so are these monthly things that you do on your podcasts are they actually like rapping sessions or.
Aaron Bright: [00:24:15] That's a good question there. That's a rap. We started it stands for reviews and perspectives.
Saul Marquez: [00:24:21] Ok well that was what I was thinking like the Zdogg M.D.
Aaron Bright: [00:24:23] Exactly. This is free rap and rap music and we used to get that all the time. I bought your thing there's no music in there at all.
Saul Marquez: [00:24:32] I was expecting hip hop. There's nothing out here.
Aaron Bright: [00:24:34] Yeah but it's that's been a really rewarding thing is having that.
Saul Marquez: [00:24:38] That's pretty cool.
Aaron Bright: [00:24:39] That monthly education that engages people and then they never leave. So you've got a real community it's not just test prep it's like I use this to stay up to date and to keep from getting burned out. I've listened to it on my run and on my way to school and all this stuff and that has been a wildly successful thing for us to do all this audio as you know what you're doing right now is the really it's the next generation of having people be able to access or share youthful stuff without changing their day or sitting in front of a computer and staring at it that can.
Saul Marquez: [00:25:07] So if we got the listeners interested in this work and they check you out I mean you know you could tell them right now and then I'll include it in the show notes. But you know let us know how can we get access to these resources.
Aaron Bright: [00:25:17] I appreciate that the company has hippo education and we have the front page of the website as hippoed.com hepoeducation.com work, too. But then you can sort of Browse through and see what we've got. We hope that you'll see all the different specialties that we're involved in and all these products. We basically do live courses like do for essentials of emergency medicine redo exam prep for what we're most proud of is these podcasts like you're doing when we do a monthly two to three hours of education more steamy than you need each year. And just a really entertaining short bite size pieces of education that will basically take over the entire job of keeping a clinician up to date and then behind that education we also do custom stuff for bigger systems and compliance in these bigger bigger questions for for healthcare. And so if they want to talk to us about that you can always email us we can contact us through the website.
Saul Marquez: [00:26:07] That's awesome man. Thanks so much for sharing that Aaron. So this is kind of apropos to what you do and my attempt to try this.
Saul Marquez: [00:26:15] This succinct approach that you take so you and I are building a medical leadership course. What it takes to be successful in medicine. It's the one alone or the ABCs of Aaron Bright.
Aaron Bright: [00:26:25] Yeah.
Aaron Bright: [00:26:25] And so you and I are going to write the syllabus for questions lightning round. You'll give me some quick responses and then we'll finish it up with a book that you recommend to the listeners. Radich lots of good writing as I. What's the best way to improve health care outcomes.
Aaron Bright: [00:26:39] Education is the best way to improve outcomes.
Saul Marquez: [00:26:46] What is the biggest mistake or pitfalls to avoid.
Aaron Bright: [00:26:49] I think the biggest mistake or pitfall to avoid for outcomes is and this may tyna in my book is ego. I think you check your ego we're all on the same team. We've artificially boxed ourselves into these certain things but it's ridiculous and if you look deep into it we're on the same team so check yourself when you see yourself Tommy some animosity toward the group on the left.
Saul Marquez: [00:27:09] Awesome. How do you stay relevant as an organization despite constant change.
Aaron Bright: [00:27:13] That is our bread and butter we love change and we're a sort of technology forward company but we stay relevant by brute force by deep diving and swimming in this stuff all day every day. I think if we didn't do that we'd be pretty easy to fall behind and I feel bad for people who can't do that but find yourself a trusted resource whether you've got a Twitter list or whatever and go over it regularly and you'll find yourself just accidentally because of interest kind of keeping up with all these different changes in the healthcare world.
Saul Marquez: [00:27:42] And finally what's one area of focus that should drive all else in your organization.
Aaron Bright: [00:27:46] We're almost to a fault mission driven on the idea of respecting our and clinician and so we are looking for ways in always every way. Like how you log into the website how you do a test how you are given feedback all the way through the education and thinking Is this the most respectful way to use that person's time and whether we're talking to the hospital CEO or we're talking to Joe family medicine doctor. We are always focused on that. In fact we've hardwired it into our system where when we're going to get to a certain point we say what part of this is kind of disrespectful and that's art. So it's a respect issue for us.
Aaron Bright: [00:28:27] And what book would you recommend Erin. You know my books are not I don't read a lot of health care books. I love to go on day and so anything that written by that guy he has one most recent one is oh I lost it. Is it more being on being mortal or something like that. OK. That's a tool Gwanda his most recent book. And it kind of talks about how clinicians die and that's a fascinating read. But I would say that what I've been recommending most is a weird when I'll give it to you and your people who are resonating with this idea of you know mission driven and being on the team and then growing as a person as you go and serve all these different populations. There's a book called Ego is the enemy. And I don't pass it out like candy. That's right. A guy named Ryan Holliday. And it's just a really beautiful example of how focusing outside yourself in all ways not just for your thinking about the patient but the people around you and your team ends up rewarding you tenfold when you're not even trying and it's a really easy your way to live anyway. A fantastic read to read ego is the enemy and that's a good thing.
Saul Marquez: [00:29:28] That's awesome. Thanks for recommending that and listeners. Be sure to go to outcomesrocket.com/bright - Aaron Bright. That's B R I G H T and you'll be able to get all of the show notes, links to the books that he's mentioned as well as links to his educational resources so you can dive in. So don't worry about hitting rewind or stopping your car or even writing while you're driving that would be really crazy. You don't want to do that just go to outcomesrocket.com/right and you'll be able to find this Aaron. Before we conclude I just want to ask you to share one closing thought and then the best place where the listeners could get a hold of you.
Aaron Bright: [00:30:06] Yeah no I guess the closing thought is that I believe very strongly to my depths that all of us that are involved in all of this healthcare stuff is a real beautiful thing for world and to be proud of yourselves and realize that the stuff you do is very very meaningful and translates all the way down so don't give up it's very frustrating place and seek out some community and some education that you like in some ways to figure out whether people are doing that you don't feel so lonely. I hate the burnout. And then if you want to check out what we're doing where we're on the web at hippoed.com and you can contact us for anything there. My email is firstname.lastname@example.org and we would love to hear from you and I'm always open to chatting with people that are looking for advice or ways to change things. And I love what you're doing over there. Also I appreciate being on on board.
Saul Marquez: [00:30:57] Hey appreciate you Aaron and it is a ton of fun to have you on. Definitely a lot of insights for the listeners and now looking forward to staying in touch with you.
Aaron Bright: [00:31:05] Thanks Saul, appreciate it.
: [00:31:10] Thanks for listening to the Outcomes Rocket podcast. Be sure to visit us on the web at www.outcomesrocket.com for the show notes, resources, inspiration and so much more.