Jamie Pabst, Founder at Spiritune, Inc.

The Power of Music for Health with Jamie Pabst, Founder at Spiritune, Inc. transcript powered by Sonix—easily convert your audio to text with Sonix.

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Saul Marquez:
Welcome back to the Outcomes Rocket, Saul Marquez is here. And thanks so much for tuning in again today. I have the privilege of hosting Jamie Pabst. Perhaps she is the founder and CEO of Spiritune, a music based app that utilizes principles of neuroscience and music therapy to reimagine music for health outcomes such as stress reduction, emotional regulation, productivity and performance. The presence of music in health care and health is something that I’m personally very fascinated by. And we’ve had a number of guests on the podcast already talking to us about how it could help in normal therapies, digital therapeutics. And so today I’m really excited to have a conversation with Jamie about what she and her team are up to at Spiritunes. So, Jamie, such a pleasure to have you here with us today.

Jamie Pabst:
Thanks, Saul. It’s a pleasure to be here. And thank you again for having me for having Spiritune and highlighting some important topics in health care. Really appreciate it.

Saul Marquez:
Absolutely. It’s my pleasure. And so, Jamie, before we dive into the work that you guys are up to, you know, looking at feeling better with music. Tell us a little bit about you and what inspires your work in health care.

Jamie Pabst:
Yeah. So I really like telling my personal story because I think it’s really important and it’s pretty unique. So my inspiration around my work in music sound and its relevance to health really stems from my birth story. Believe it or not, my mom lost her hearing when she was pregnant with me from there. It’s a rare condition called autist fluorosis that can be triggered by hormonal imbalance. And so her pregnancy with me really triggered that. And so it resulted in hearing loss. And so as a result of being raised by a mother with hearing loss, I gained this deep appreciation for the sense of sound in a way that most people don’t get to experience it. So in a way that’s related to health, that’s understanding the auditory system at a deeper level and quality of life. And then, you know, I further became inspired in music, specifically an auditory perception when my sister went off to college and declared her degree in music therapy. So that’s when I not only learned about auditory perception, but also music and how it affects brain and neurologic function. And then kind of thirdly, I would say, you know, it wasn’t until I became really stressed and anxious and my own professional career that I felt firsthand and kind of turn to music.

Jamie Pabst:
I rediscovered the therapeutic benefits are the therapeutic benefits of music firsthand because I felt like at work it was the only thing I could turn to that was kind of right then and right there. And so that’s really what you know, the third thing that really drove home, this concept of Spiritune or where it was born, you know, if it could help me, it could help others. And that’s when I started doing some deeper dives myself into the science behind music and auditory stimuli and how it can be a reliable, everyday tool for stress and mental health. And so we’re really at a time right now where some great institutions and some really talented people are devoting their lives and careers to research in this space. So while it was my mother that inspires my work every day, you know, all these other components that make spirit really relevant right now are, you know, further inspiring to me.

Saul Marquez:
Jamie, that’s an amazing story. And, you know, I think it is just one of those things that that is the fire, you know, that keeps you going. It’s the fire that gets you going. And you certainly have a very strong, strong purpose for this.

Jamie Pabst:
Absolutely. So thanks for asking the question.

Saul Marquez:
Yeah. And, well, I mean, you’re a mom now.

Jamie Pabst:
So we just we did everything comes full circle. It’s really it’s a special time for. Sorry. Luckily, I didn’t lose my hearing.

Saul Marquez:
Were you nervous or did you know? Yeah.

Jamie Pabst:
You don’t know that you have you’re genetically predisposed to it, but until you have a significant change in life. It doesn’t. It isn’t expressed. So, yeah, I was a little nervous for sure. But so far, so good. And we have a beautiful little girl and she’s one week into life and it’s pretty awesome.

Saul Marquez:
That’s amazing. I admire your perseverance and your courage. And so the work at Spiritunes is super cool. So. So tell us a little bit about how you guys are adding value to the health care ecosystem.

Jamie Pabst:
Yeah. So I think it’s pretty self-evident that these are stressful and anxious times right..And pretty much everyone has experienced the magnitude of stress and mental health this year and even prior to the COVID pandemic. Mental health was already called the health epidemic of the 21st century. And now in this global pandemic that’s been persisting, mental health has been called. The second crisis as a fallout of at 19. And so I think what it’s really done is shined a light on mental health and the importance of stress relief and managing emotions. So what’s really significant about stress is that if it’s not addressed appropriately, it can be really damaging to our health with consequences spanning from everything from headaches to heart disease and anxiety and depression. So but the good news on the positive side is that stress reduction doesn’t have to involve complex solutions. And it’s actually very, very addressable with fairly simple solutions. If they’re embraced and identified or stresses identified early and often. And so things like music can be highly effective. As you know, music in particular engages powerful brain networks that underlie stress. So for us at Spiritune, our role in reimagining music for health outcomes like stress reduction and emotional regulation and mental health becomes really important in adding value to the health care ecosystem in a pretty unique and novel way. Because we’re taking what’s really cool is we’re taking a familiar part of someone’s everyday life, like music, listening and reimagining it and rebuilding it for health outcomes through music therapy principles and neuros neuroscience research. So it automatically becomes a pretty simple and easy solution that doesn’t require a lot of behavior change for folks. So I think, you know, with modern day health care and simplicity, accessibility is really important. And when it comes to digital solutions that are easy to use with a modality like music listening that’s already familiar in people’s life. That’s a pretty big game changer when you make it a reliable intervention from a science based approach. So that’s how that’s how we’re kind of reimagining music and addressing stress in the health care ecosystem.

Saul Marquez:
I think it’s great. And, you know, I had a discussion, Jamie, a couple of years ago with Walter Riso. He’s got a company called Health Tunes. Have you heard of them?

Jamie Pabst:
I have. That’s like through your podcast. But, yeah, I love their work. It’s definitely in alignment with Spiritune.

Saul Marquez:
I just thought it was so interesting how, like you could use music to regulate a baby’s heartbeat.

Jamie Pabst:
Yeah, that is one of the most clear and well research principles. It’s the principle of entrainment. Where our natural biorhythm? So heart rate. Breath rate. Even brainwave naturally want to sink to periodic auditory stimuli. So rhythm is one huge driver of that. And so when you think of our bodies naturals response in our fight or flight response, that can be slowed down by music. That’s like such an amazing thing for people. I think that’s really a game changer.

Saul Marquez:
That is, I think there’s so much promise here. And, you know, when you listen to music, you are changing your physiology. It’s like another way of getting up and doing some jumping jacks.

Jamie Pabst:
Yeah, totally. It’s a mental workout. But it’s what’s really cool is not to diminish hard work, but it’s done automatically. Our body responds to it without us trying, you know. And so that really I think is is the key component here where it’s kind of ingrained or hardwired physiologically or we don’t have to really try at it. It’s just a matter of letting the music do the work. If you if you’ve developed an intervention Right. that’s devoted to it. Right. Right. Yeah. So that’s I think what’s really kind of key here is that our body is naturally tuned to it. So we by having an intervention that’s tuned to her health and that becomes like the really kind of magical piece.

Saul Marquez:
I love that. And so what would you say makes what you do different or better than what’s available out there?

Jamie Pabst:
Yeah. So, you know, as I mentioned previously, you know, prior, what’s unique about Spiritune is that it takes what’s something that’s already familiar in our lives. So pretty much I don’t know anybody that really doesn’t listen to music already Right. and marrying it with science. By doing this, you get a solution or an intervention that doesn’t require behavior change and that’s reliable and enjoyable. You know, I think most things in health care require some sort of commitment or behavior change or something that’s not enjoyable. And that’s when people really fall off the bandwagon, when they don’t engage with it or can’t because we have busy lives. So when you come up with a simple solution that really is part of somebodies everyday life anyway, it becomes really powerful. So, you know, when you think of things that require a routine or require behavior change, like meditation or working out while those are therapy, those are kind of the probably current go to stress reduction mode. Modality is if I had to guess or medicine. Those are all great things. But what we hear consistently is that people often, you know, can’t adhere to those things because they just can’t adhere to a routine. They fall off the wagon. So with music or a science based approach to music, that really makes us unique. And so there’s a few other companies that are, you know, pretty, you know, out of the gates in mission alignment with spirit tune. And I love that more and more people are are doing great things with music from a health perspective. But so far, it’s pretty novel and where, you know, at the beginning stages of what’s possible. So that’s really exciting.

Saul Marquez:
That’s exciting. So tell us tell us how it works. And in particular, you know. I guess so. So tell us how it works. Let’s start there.

Jamie Pabst:
Well, it is sort of complex, but I’ll do my best to you.Yeah. The beauty is that we’ve made a very simple intervention. But there was a lot of complexity going into the building of it. Right. And, you know, the thing is, is that it’s not about music is not a monolithic thing. Right. it’s it’s highly complex and it’s it’s broken down to a lot into a lot of characteristics and primitives, as we call them. So so music is just auditory, organized auditory stimuli. And that consists of things like articulation and timbre and tonality and rhythm and rhythmic complexity.

Jamie Pabst:
And there’s you know, you could break down a musical composition to about 200 plus characteristics or even more. And what we’ve really done is given or taken the top characteristics of the musical composition, that really effective physiological response and given them guardrails and prioritize them based on an emotional trajectory. So what’s unique about spirit tune? It’s personalized. When people think of stress reduction music, they automatically think of like spas, music or ambient music.

Jamie Pabst:
But that’s really not the case. It’s how the complexities or the characteristics of music are organized based on the context of the person. So what emotional state are they in and what emotional state do they want to be in? And what are they doing in their day? So you can imagine if you’re highly alert and you’re working and you want to, you know, power through some work and stay focused. That music probably, you know, you can intuitively understand that music should sound different than music you want to fall asleep to. Right. You want that music to change based on what your outcome, your desired outcome is. And so we adjust and personalize the music and it’s all proprietaries. So we built this with our team of music therapists and neuroscientists and then partner with composers to really create personalized music, personalized to the user, personalized to their outcome and taking them on an emotional trajectory. So that, like we said earlier, like music is one of the fastest conductors of human emotion. You can feel it almost immediately. And that’s what we hear from all of our users, is that, you know, holy cow, from the moment we play to, you know, a few minutes and I’m already in my desired emotional state. So what the trajectory is, what’s really key, the personalization of meeting somebody where they are. And that’s actually very therapeutic.

Jamie Pabst:
You know, a lot of interventions, people feel very judged or very, you know, almost feel it very bad that their emotion, their end doesn’t feel isn’t matched to the emotion that they’d like to be in because people are feeling anxious or people are feeling apathetic or lethargic. And when you don’t recognize the state they’re in currently, then they feel worse almost. So by matching the state they’re in and embracing them there and then transitioning them out musically, they feel heard. They feel embraced. And then the musical changes to take them where they want to go is even more powerful. So that’s kind of where our secret sauce lies. As far as, you know, transition the transitioning of one state to the next and really helping the user become more self-aware by constantly putting in these emotional checkpoint’s that makes them feel in tune with how they are, how they’re feeling. And that’s really the first step to taking control of your emotions and feeling better is recognizing your emotion, identifying it, naming it, and then feeling like it’s OK to be there before you move to your next state.

Saul Marquez:
Well, I think it’s so cool, Jamie. And, you know, I’m always looking for ways to do this. Right. And listeners, you’re probably thinking, yeah, me too. And maybe you are feeling a little bummed right now or maybe you’re OK and that’s cool. But if you maybe you’re not in a state that you want to be in or maybe your loved one is not in the state you want them to be in, then spirit tune back. Com is where you go. It looks like it’s mostly probably best suited for mobile. Right, Jamie, because you’re always on the go. Right.

Saul Marquez:
So. So yeah. Go to spiritube on your mobile. And there’s a free trial. Right. There’s a free trial.

Jamie Pabst:
And, yeah, I think it’s a mobile device by the awesome part, you know, unique part about Spiritune as well as, you know, everyone’s loving in their headphones and air pods or at least has a speaker available, so. And really, nobody wants to be on their screen more than they have to these days. So, you know, the power of audio is such a great thing that we’re working with Right. particularly right now. So, you know, you get it on your device. But stream it through your headphones, your air pods, your speaker, whatever you want. And that’s one of the unique properties of audio, I think is it’s just it’s listening rather than more screen time.

Saul Marquez:
Yeah. And so who is not looking for a way to feel good? Right. And if it’s if you could do it with some music that has been custom-tailored to suit whatever emotion you’re in. Acknowledge it. Transition to how you want to feel. I mean, why not? It’s pretty amazing. So. So as you as you think about this, what would you say is one thing that’s been a way that you guys have improved outcomes or made business better? Maybe you got like a whole company to start using this. Maybe you run a company. You’re listening to this. You want your you increase your people’s productivity. Something to think about. So if you if you have something there. Jamie, I’d love to hear from you.

Jamie Pabst:
Yeah. So, you know, we released our IOS application just a few months ago. So in the midst of this crisis, which is, you know, never fun to release during a global pandemic. However, you know, I would say that that’s been a unique opportunity for us, given spiritual relevance and mental health during this time. Yeah. But I’d say we prior to our full release, we Aveda tested for seven months. And as far as improved outcomes go and test in beta testing and getting feedback from our users, we helped 90 percent of our users reach their reach, their emotional goals, which is a pretty big number that we are really happy with and really inspired by. So and most of our users say they can feel that shift within a few months or a few minutes of listening. And so, again, that’s the unique capacity of music, is to really shift emotions quite quickly and feel that. So, you know, that statistic with beta testing as far as improving outcomes is a big one for us. And then as far as well, I’ll also say that the most popular user trajectory at the moment, which is probably no surprise, is anxious to chill right now.

Jamie Pabst:
So being able to help our users transition through difficult emotions quickly and reliably gets me really excited about Sphero tune and how we can step in and help out, particularly in these trying times. But from a business standpoint, as you pointed out, we’ve had some employers that have really gotten excited about Sfeir tunes. So we’ve already stepped in and helped several employers deploy this to their employees, particularly. You know, it can be used at the office. But now in a work from home environment, it’s become even more people are more enthusiastic about using it, because as we’re sitting here from our at home environments, they can often be unpredictable and not set up for the Right., you know, workplace productivity. So spirit team can really step in and help workers working from home and building out sort of the sonic environment and helping them feel better and perform better at the same time, whether they’re at the office or working from home.

Saul Marquez:
Well, super cool. And so while we were chatting, I, I subscribed, I downloaded it and then some excited to try it myself. Have you heard of focus that well. I have. So I love it. Right. I have like a lifetime with them yet. And I see that you offer a lifetime too.

Jamie Pabst:
So yeah I might, you should, you should double down. Right.

Saul Marquez:
I think I will. I think this is so neat. And you know, the one thing that I really liked as I was diving through this. So, folks, you enter your emotion, how you feel, and then you choose how you want to feel. And then the music plays. And so the thing that I liked about it is, what if you feel already energized? So there’s energized to energized. So you could actually stay with it. Right. I think that’s pretty cool. Yeah.

Jamie Pabst:
We know people have a variety of emotions right now. You can feel it, be feeling bad and you don’t want to say feeling bad forever. Right. So we transition you into a positive state or positive valence, as we call it. And or if you’re ready, jamming along and an energized state you want to stay locked in. Right. So Totoo. So we keep you there. And that’s, I think, the game changer where spirit tune is all about these either trajectories or staying, you know, in as what we call it, a stabilizing trajectory.

Saul Marquez:
Very cool. And I notice the first track quasar journey to energize is for like just two like five minutes. Right. So does that mean. There’s multiple songs, so it’s not just like one one our track or like, how does that work?

Jamie Pabst:
Yeah, that’s a great question. So so we’re built with transition tracks and stabilizing tracks.

Jamie Pabst:
And, you know, a lot of people ask if it’s just an ongoing soundscape. And the reason we don’t do soundscapes or the reason why we want to stick to kind of musical tracks is that it’s really music that has all these properties that carry us emotionally. Sometimes soundscapes are subject to what we call habituation. So once they start sounding the same, it starts losing its effect. And so the tracks that we build take you from one trajectory to the next. If you select a transition track Right. from anxious to calm or anxious to energize and you, like I said to you, that transition is supposed to take place in the first either 30 seconds or for sure in a minute time. And then once that transition track takes place, then we move to the stabilizing trajectory. So that’s once we’ve got you locked into, let’s say, energized, then we keep you there. So the following tracks are linked from Energis to energize to keep you there until you say I’m ready for a different option Right. or I want to go to calm, for example. So yeah, that’s how we that’s how we build it. The transition leading into the stabilizing state.

Saul Marquez:
Thank you for that. And as you’ve built this and launched it and get people signing up for it, what would you say is one of the biggest setbacks you’ve experienced and was a key learning that came from it?

Jamie Pabst:
Yeah. So, I mean, in startup life, there’s always setbacks. First say that. But, you know, I’d say the biggest setback was also one of our biggest opportunities.

Jamie Pabst:
You know, as as I mentioned earlier, as timing worked out, we ended up launching Spiritune on the App Store a few weeks into the COVID crisis. And while that’s a crisis is never an opportune time to be launching a business, nor the optimal time to be fundraising, which we were. The silver lining is that also, as I mentioned, spirit tune is more relevant than ever before and more needed than ever. As mental health has become a more critical priority for both individuals and employers. So people working from home, as we already touched on, have really been helped by spirit tune. And that’s been great as we realize that while there’s some business setbacks to launching during a crisis, it also means you can find new ways to address populations or new opportunities. And so what’s happened is around this sense of urgency around providing mental health relief during this crisis is that we’ve been able to open up our platform more quickly than we otherwise could have imagined with or to partner with organizations and provide access to significant vulnerable populations like elderly care, military families and players. And these relationships normally take, you know, several months to years to fund, to foster. And really they’ve, due to this sense of urgency, have been cultivated and implemented. And, you know, weeks and weeks time. So that’s really allowed us to expand our reach more quickly and impact more people and more lives more quickly during this great time of need.

Saul Marquez:
And that’s such, such a great thing. You guys are making the most out of it. And you’re right. You know, some of these do take traction and a long time. These things take a long time. So as you reflect on the positive side of the pandemic and how you guys are helping people, what would you say you’re most excited about?

Jamie Pabst:
Well, there’s a couple things. I’ll first say that given a weekend to motherhood, I’m pretty excited about my new little girl who who’s a week ago. It’s amazing. What’s her name? Her name’s Harper Harper. And yes, she is. She’s definitely a bundle of joy with a lot of exhaustion. But, you know, it’s really cool what I realized and this journey into motherhood, you really step into the role of a caregiver and nurture and a deep understanding of what it means to serve a vulnerable population. Nothing like motherhood that. And so that’s really reinvigorated my role as an entrepreneur in health care. So I will say that it’s very exciting to me, but also for the non mothers out there.

Jamie Pabst:
From a business standpoint and spiritually and specifically, I get really excited about anything when science and technology catches up to our human intuitions and behaviors. And so, you know, people have been using music, you know, over it throughout time. Right. to better to for enjoyment. You know, usually when behaviors are consistent over time, that means there’s something going on. Right. Right. They take science and technology to validate it. And that’s exactly what’s happening right now. And so as the world of research and science and tech have have been catching up to our behaviors and music listening, we’re now at this really awesome time where music can be pushed into its rightful place, into health care, because we can measure it. We can validate its impact. There’s more research that proves its efficacy. And that’s all changing as we speak. So it’s really a pretty exciting time to be moving music into the modern world of medicine and health care. And I feel pretty fortunate that Spirit is able to be one of the early leaders in this space and helping our users get the best outcomes from sound.

Saul Marquez:
Yeah, I think it’s awesome. And Jamie, you know, congratulations on get a little one. Thanks. And it’s a testament to your commitment to this and how much you are working to make it make it happen for others. And so kudos to you and your team for what you’ve done thus far and what you will create with this.

Jamie Pabst:
Awesome. Thank you. Yeah. It’s been quite the journey, but it’s only just beginning to. So it’s pretty it’s pretty exciting for sure.

Saul Marquez:
Yeah. All right. So we’re. We’re here at the end. And so before we conclude, I’d love if you could just share a closing thought with the listeners and then the best place that they could get in touch with you or somebody on your team.

Jamie Pabst:
Yeah, sure. So I’m going to keep it simple. And this makes sound obvious. No pun intended. But I’d really like to emphasize the importance of sound know, as someone who’s deeply appreciated the sense of sound since birth and has studied and worked with researchers around the links between our auditory system and the brain. I really feel strongly and passionately, passionately about educating people and wanting people to take sound seriously because it does play a very important role in our health. And I think sound often takes a back seat to the rest of our senses because it’s not something that you can see or touch. But, you know, it’s very clear from research and studies that sound that enters our ears and if and is processed by our brain significantly affects our emotions, our physiology. And, you know, these modern advances in neuroscience and music therapy mean it’s possible to reengineer audio, to better manage emotions and enhance performance and use sound as a reliable tool for our health. So I just want it, you know, it’s one part providing the intervention, that it’s one part educating. And I want people to know and appreciate sound as a more powerful part of our health. So and then as far as staying in tune, we have we have a new feature I’m excited about for sleep, which I think we all like.

Saul Marquez:
Oh, really? I was actually just thinking about that. Yeah.

Jamie Pabst:
So when I talked when I was talking about context of your day, we’ll be building on new features along the way. We’re only view on right now, but our sleep feature should be rolling out this week or next.

Jamie Pabst:
So stay tuned for that. And then you can reach us. You can either go to the Web site at www.spiritune.com, or you can follow us on Instagram at Spirit Tune dot sound or I’m happy to field any questions directly. Jamie, Jay and I e at Spirit team dot com.

Saul Marquez:
Outstanding. Jamie, you literally just say, read my mind. I wonder how I could use this for sleep.

Jamie Pabst:
So we have the winding down category right now. People often associate that with sleep. And I’m like, no, let’s just take, you know, line down from a busy day. But now we have the actual sleep categories. So we’ve got you covered all.

Saul Marquez:
Hey. And you know. You know what, though? I’m thinking about, too. And thank you. Thank you. It’s like even for my son’s bedtime Right. like when I read him books and stuff. If I could play something in the background that will help him line down.

Jamie Pabst:
Yet we already have mothers and families that are giving us great feedback that particularly now while everyone’s at home, families are more together, that they’re helping their whole family regulate kind of becoming Marcellis, just managing emotions, whether it’s for themselves or for their children.

Jamie Pabst:
So that’s really fun to hear that we’re helping not only individuals, but families. And that’s really great. That is and I will say the doctors complimented us on our on our sound curation at the hospital. The doctors are improving as well.

Saul Marquez:
Nice. I love it. Well, I am certainly excited to try this and so glad that you’re here to share it with everyone. Folks, if you go to Speare, to Netcom from your mobile device, you could click on the start your free trial button. Start your free trial. I mean, why not? It’s it’s a. Fatuity for you to ramp up your productivity, get yourself into a good date and also have a good tool, right? I mean, I’m excited to get this started.

Saul Marquez:
You know, my focus at well is going to be about focus. But this this is this just seems a little more versatile. And so, Jamie, I want to I want to thank you for sharing the work that you’re up to and certainly very excited to share this with everybody today.

Jamie Pabst:
Awesome. Well, I really enjoyed our time together. And thanks for having me again. And I appreciate the work you’re doing as well as Hallstatt. Thanks so much. And take care. All right.

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