Social Determinants of Pharma
Episode 497

Christopher Boone, Vice President, Lead of Global Medical Epidemiology and Big Data Analysis at Pfizer

Social Determinants of Pharma

Leveraging on differences in population and social determinants to improve clinical development and clinical research

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Social Determinants of Pharma

Episode 497

Recommended Book:

Good to Great

Best Way to Contact Chris:

LinkedIn

Company Website:

Pfizer

Social Determinants of Pharma with Christopher Boone, Vice President, Head of Global Medical Epidemiology & Big Data Analysis at Pfizer transcript powered by Sonix—the best automated transcription service in 2020. Easily convert your audio to text with Sonix.

Social Determinants of Pharma with Christopher Boone, Vice President, Head of Global Medical Epidemiology & Big Data Analysis at Pfizer was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the latest audio-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors. Sonix is the best way to convert your audio to text. Our automated transcription algorithms works with many of the popular audio file formats.

Welcome to the Outcomes Rocket podcast, where we inspire collaborative thinking, improved outcomes and business success with today’s most successful and inspiring health care leaders and influencers. And now your host, Saul Marquez.

Saul Marquez:
Welcome back to the podcast, Saul Marquez here. Today I have the privilege of hosting Christopher Boone, Dr. Christopher Boone. He serves as the Vice President and lead of Global Medical Epidemiology and Big Data Analysis for Pfizer. He’s an Adjunct Assistant Professor of Health Administration at the New York University’s Robert F. Wagner Graduate School of Public Service and Active Board member of several influential organizations and a co-founder of a few startup companies. Most recently, he served as a Vice President and Head of Real-World Data and Analytics at Pfizer. He’s been recognized as a 2019 Top 100 Innovator in Data and Analytics, a 2018 Emerging Pharma Leader by Pharmaceutical Executive, and a 2017 Top 40 under 40 Leader in Minority Health by the National Minority Quality Forum. He is an outstanding individual, thinking big in health care, and I’m privileged to open up the mic to Christopher to fill us in on any of the gaps that I may have missed and to get into the podcast. Chris, welcome.

Christopher Boone:
Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.

Saul Marquez:
It’s a pleasure, Chris. Now, you know, actually, I should ask you before I keep going with that. And obviously this is editable, Chris or Christopher?

Christopher Boone:
Chris.

Saul Marquez:
Chris is good?

Christopher Boone:
Yes.

Saul Marquez:
Okay, cool. I just want to make sure you’re good with that rather than go all the way through and you feel like, man, I should have told them.

Christopher Boone:
I mean, I either worse is my name, right, but I’m a very informal guy, so. Okay, I’m back. So as you know, you don’t have to get this part out, you know, cause I think this is good for for people. And now that I’m just a pretty everyday low key kind of guy. Chris is fun.

Saul Marquez:
Chris It is. So. So Chris, tell me a little bit more about what inspires your work in health care.

Christopher Boone:
Wow. The thing that inspires me most is, is the ability to help people. I mean, I think that generally health care is one of those industries that for the most part, health care is one of those industries that I think most people get into because it’s this kind of this overwhelming desire to want to make things better. And there’s no better industry to do that than the healthcare and life sciences space. I personally, you know, I share this actually it came out earlier this week and at linkedin posted in a twitter that released a note, a letter describing who my single or one of my greatest inspirations is and certainly my greatest patient inspiration and I was my mom’s an issue. She had lupus and brought up and watching her. And with that, pretty much that chronic disease is certainly traveling to see whether your loved ones do or so much pain. But I think where it really started to change is when you start to when you have that personal encounter, right. Most people don’t realize some of the deficiencies in the system. And so they have their own encounter with the system. And for me, it was when it was actually when she was she had a stroke. And then she actually we really experienced firsthand the the lack of information or data sharing that existed between provider organizations and how and how critical it is to just give the actual routine care to a patient and who can make those before self because she had just had a stroke. She has the short term paralysis associated with that, which means she really could speak well. And so it was a tough, tough situation. But I think that’s somewhat critical moment in my defining moment, I’ll call it, in my life was one that told me that I need to actually use a better utilize my talents to make things better for other people so that they would have to encounter that. The interesting thing about is that prior to that moment, I had already started to think about, hey, I want to be at health care because I again had this overwhelming desire to think I could help people. And I was working, actually at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, which is an academic medical center there. That was thinking along the lines of, oh, I’m going to go off and I’m out of your hospital administrator. It’s a really cool job to do. You run a hospital and, you know, all things are what they are. But it was when my mother had her experience and we were there. And I was part of it is when I started to do activity, I pivoted back to my natural talents, which is in the informatics and data side of it and thought that I could really have you can really do some transformational from that vantage point. And I’m grateful for the fact that I’ve been able to do that. So even if it’s just a little bit.

Saul Marquez:
I think it’s a great story, Chris, and how’s your mom doing?

Christopher Boone:
She’s great, man. She’s still in Dallas. You know, I share a share with her. The story that we have actually spoke about this the first time I ever spoke about my mother, this situation specifically and how disparity was actually in 2015. I was at a pharmacy of health data consortium. We were hosting Health Datapalooza in 2015. And I went public with and I was nervous. Really, really nervous. Yeah, well, you know, because you’re releasing something so personal. Right. And usually when you find people are doing these keynotes, they’re very kind of very it’s very it’s divorced from their personal emotion or their personal experience. All. Yeah. As for me, I was reading so much about myself, but I felt like that’s what we needed to do. We needed to make it real for people and let people know that these individuals that are in DC or wherever they are are real people, too. And they’re ultimately driven by something. Right. And you know, me, my motivation was was that experience. But then, you know, so you fast forwards where we are today. And if that feeling never really goes away, you know, that feeling, the Bayati and you know, it’s like, oh, you’re building this part of myself, but you don’t. I don’t necessarily too for myself. I do it for other people. It becomes. It’s been remarkable to see the level of responses that I’ve gotten from people globally who read that short write up on LinkedIn and even within the walls of Pfizer, whom I’ve never met. You know, they sent me direct messages and they’re like, oh, I’m so inspired by the story. My mother has lupus, too. I have a family member who has this chronic condition. And you know what it reminds me of that reliability is important. The humanity side of health care is extremely important. And I think it gets lost. We get so wrapped up in some of the more political issues. And I think we we lose sight of the fact that it’s really and it should be solely primarily about the patient. And so for that part, I’m grateful. And, you know, and everything. You know, it’s what they say. Everything happens for a reason. So you have these defining moments in your life and it inspires you to do something you hope is for the greater good. So that’s why I with it.

Saul Marquez:
Yeah. And I think it’s it’s a strong message about humanity. Relate ability. You’re so right about it. And I think it is something that as health care leaders, we forget about. So I really appreciate you you bringing it up and putting it front and center for us as we think about health care and and the things that we could be doing to make it better. How would you say what you’re doing is adding value either to Pfizer and your customers or to the health care ecosystem as a whole?

Christopher Boone:
I mean, I think the work we’re doing right now is very, very, very important. I mean, you hear the term big data analytics, and it’s certainly a buzzword at this point. But I think where it really adds the most value is it’s its application, right, its use and how it maps and not just running analysis for analysis sake, but the actual impact that you make from your analysis and what we’re doing right now, especially with your organization that I’m heading right now at Pfizer, which is called Global Medical Epidemiology, Big Data Analysis, what we’re trying to do is get I would almost give it a trifecta, if you will, of how we think about clinical care,right, so with it, our group, we’re utilizing big data or these very novel data sources to better understand the current state of a disease like the current epidemiology of a disease that includes the the burden of the disease, the unmet needs, the incidence and prevalence rates, those particular cell populations that are affected most by that particular disease. And ultimately, what’s the current standard of care as it pertains to that particular clinical condition and what it allows us to do? You know, if you think about the current state of clinical research with randomized clinical trials, is that when you look at the population of folks or participants that are actually randomized clinical trials are very homogenous group of folks. Right. And quite frankly, the numbers say that is roughly 80 to 85 percent white and then white males on top of that, which is generally not reflective of what I would say the U.S. or even the global population is for that. So when you think about the approval of all of these medicines, they’re based on a very homogenous population, yet we’re actually treating patients with these diseases based on that group. And so when you think about the power of what we’re doing is that we fully recognize that there are some populations that look different. Right. and that would be their genetic makeup. Our genetic profiles are different. Their environmental conditions are different, their socio-economic status is different. All these different. We’re going to use the term social determinants factors that are there that create a different experience for that patient. So my team, my group, we are very focused on understanding what those populations look like and who would actually benefit most, who would be at most risk when it comes to certain clinical conditions and who and where are our medicines could treat those patients better. So imagine a world where clinical research clinical trials will look different than it has in the past 50 years. Right. And now we’re introducing these new capabilities and technologies with the data and the advanced analytics and now epidemiological methods to better understand these populations, these clinical conditions, these current standard of care. And then we’re able to design studies that would generate the best evidence of how these medicines work in the real world. And so it’s a very powerful it’s truly a transformational or a paradigm shift for the way we’ve done clinical development and clinical research in the past. And I’m very, very excited about it. And, you know, another thing about it that that really makes it that much more powerful is the level of engagement we’re getting from patients. And usually you’re hearing this movement and the shift towards. Science and one of the I guess, prime examples I think of when it comes to citizen scientists is the all of us program. A lot of patients are actively contributing their data and they that data is just being used for what was a quote unquote, the public good. Right. And and I think that the power of that and the ability to do analysis on that data to better understand our current treatment protocols, current disease that are out there, and then best develop treatments and medicines and interventions for that becomes very, very powerful.

Saul Marquez:
It sure does. And the idea of transforming the clinical trials with social determinants of health and the sub populations. I mean, that’s really exciting. I agree with you. And when you think about a large company and scalability being a thing, how do you deal with that? Right. I mean, how do you address the different populations and still have a scalable business?

Christopher Boone:
No, that’s a great question. I think you have to be practical. Always use the hashtag innervate practically. It’s one of the things that you. And so you have to be realistic about what you can actually attain and the things you don’t want to do is get in the land of pilot purgatory. I love that phrase that in coin it, but I heard someone else use it before and I thought it.

Saul Marquez:
I love it too.

Christopher Boone:
Very, very insightful space. Because generally what we do when you’re doing something innovative, you want to say, let’s do a pilot. Right. And so you do all of these pilots that never really translate into anything. So part of my my philosophy around innovating practically is that, OK, let’s choose one or two areas where we can really focus on a delivery and actually demonstrate a measurable impact of that, whether it be critical economic, business, operational, you name it. Right. So that’s generally what they. And so we talked about scalability. It’s around building an operating model that allows you to execute on that pilot quote unquote, fit into it and then demonstrating a measurable impact at the onset of that and then building on that. And so I think that that’s the most important thing. I think where there’s been a dangerous thing for the very large organizations, that is that when you’re trying to do innovative approaches, it gets lost in the bureaucracy. They can take 6 to 18 months to even get things approved from. Whether it be through your legal team, the executive teams, your procurement teams in every other division, that has to touch it. And that part of that part is, is I think it’s catastrophic to innovation. And so when it comes to a lot of the big pharma companies are just big companies generally. Sometimes we’re going to have to find ways to get out of our own way and find ways to be a bit more nimble than and really driving innovation in the business. And it is tough because you’re trying is some kind of titanic, if you will. And so it’s not easy. But I think that what a group like ours, where we’re approaching this in a very, very practical way, we’re not trying to boil the ocean. We’re focused on two or three very concrete things and we’re trying to see them through and see what impact it has.

Saul Marquez:
Now, I think I think it’s really great, Chris. And, you know, you’re obviously a veteran in the field and understand the challenges. But also it sounds like you guys have honed in on some very specific areas where you believed the company can make a large impact with this approach.

Christopher Boone:
Yeah. You know, what is interesting about it is that we do our share of people and I share this and all of my talks. And I always find it interesting to see the reaction that I get, because when people say, what’s the greatest challenge you face and what they’re really, really waiting on me to give them some very technical or technological challenge that we experience as it pertains to what we’re trying to do. And what I tell them is that honestly, the single greatest challenge I have is the cultural transformation necessary to make this work. Right, because that’s the thing that I think often goes overlooked or understated, is that when you look at changing the business and operating models of an organization, you have to you can never forget that there are people involved in this and there’s a level of adoption and integration that you must endure to make it work. And it has to be sustainable, which means people have to believe in it. And it’s tough. And in that that’s not they have little to do with your technical aptitude and capabilities. Right. And that requires, you know, recruiting shift leadership and stewardship and change management protocols and plans. And you really have to think about that. How do you, you know, we say scale. You really are saying how do you institute change to sustain that innovative idea? Right. And then from there becomes the scaling. The scalability is not the issue. You can scale it, but will people use it or adopt it or will it change anything? Right. So the question is really around the ability to somewhat drive organizational transformation and that that is where I think most big organizations are in this current digital era that we’re in. And you need more leaders who can effectively do that.

Saul Marquez:
Yeah, I think that’s a it’s a great way to put it. And yeah, you know, I’ve seen a lot of larger companies work with incubators or even have a venture arm of their own to try to drive some of that innovation externally and then bring it in. I think it’s great that you guys are working on this internally and have somebody like yourself that understands, you know, those levers that need to be pulled to create that transformation that will lead to better medicine and better outcomes.

Christopher Boone:
Yeah, I mean, be investment in like the you know, we’ll say the subsidiaries is divisions that are focused on external partners or external engagement to drive. Innovation is almost an acknowledgement by the big organization that says they know that it’s hard to drive innovation within their own walls. So they have that other separate organization to do it and to work with external partners to see that level of innovation that they want to see. But I still think the the idea of the larger motherships organization transform is still needed. Right. So it’s very difficult to do an outside in when it comes to driving sustainable innovation in a very large company. The benefit of many of the companies that have been created in the last 10 or 15 years is that they’re all digitally native companies, Right., which means they came into it. They were born in the digital era. A lot of the digital technologies they embrace, that was part of it’s part of their DNA, whereas you have companies like large companies like Pfizer have been around for 170 years. Right. there is an element, a large element of transformation that has to take shape. Obviously the organization has devised two different periods, so there’s not a question of whether we can do it, but it’s a question of how do you do it effectively and in a manageable way. And I think that that’s the key.

Saul Marquez:
Yeah. Chris, I’m glad you brought that up, right? I mean, it’s not enough to outsource innovation. There’s gotta be an internal transformation to stay with the times and as you as you think about the things that you’re most proud of in your career. Can you highlight maybe a business accomplishment or or an outcome that you’re most proud of, what you’ve done?

Christopher Boone:
You know, it’s funny because that’s always a very difficult question because, you know, you feel like all of your experiences are like your children in many respects, that they operate you in different ways. Right. And so it’s not. And I think people always want to lean to their signature team. And and I think for me, those are the things that influenced me and impacted me the most that I always been the great focus. And there’s been a number of them. And I think it all depends on how people define failure. And failure for me, doesn’t mean that I was sleeping in my car. You know, I don’t have one of Osaka, but you do have one of those things that’s like, man, this really cut me deep or I have to pick myself back up from this experience. So I don’t know if I have a single defining moment in that regard. As far as a professional experience in that sense. But I think when I think about accomplishments and achievements, it’s always the most recent thing that I’ve done in my Right.. So right now, we’re effectively building out an entirely new organization within Pfizer. The name of it is called A Global Medical Epidemiologist and Big Data Analysis. I’ve been extremely fortunate to recruit some very very talented individuals to be part of this bill. And you can imagine it being like a startup company with any large company were tasked with introducing a very innovative capability. And what I feel was the future of the healthcare industry, not just biopharmaceuticals, but the health care industry more broadly, and that’s real evidence. And I think that for that and for the opportunity to leave that and to drive that, I’m most proud of that. But if you would’ve asked me, 2 years ago or 5 years ago that I would have given you something else that was probably very recent at that time. But I think right now when I’m hanging my hat on the ability to introduce something very novel, very nice and very transformative in large, a very large global company like Pfizer that I feel like carries us into the future for that problem.

Saul Marquez:
Yeah, that’s definitely a lot to be proud of, Chris. And congratulations on that. And the future is bright. You know, if you if you had to look ahead and say, yeah, in 5 years, our impact will have been this. If you guys were to have succeeded, what would that be?

Christopher Boone:
Well, I think that 5 years from now, to say that success for me would be that we have the regulators globally fully accepting real evidence to really make their regulatory decisions on medicines. Right. in the significance of that. Is that real evidence is much more reflective of the heterogeneity that we see in the patient population, and it’s also much more reflective of the real world experience of many of our patients. And if we can find a way to generate evidence that is acceptable to regulators and accurate and allow them to ultimately bridge the gap with the evidence we use for clinical care that we use for regulatory approval, do that to me is a huge win because right now we’re at the current speed. Is that. The evidence that we soon get to a regulator in this case, the FDA Right. is one of the regulators to make a regulatory decision on a drug or a medicine. It’s not necessarily the same evidence that would be used by a physician or provider to make their clinical care decisions. Right. And so what you want to imagine is a world where that evidence is one and the same. Right. So you’ve bridged the gap of the evidence used for clinical care with the evidence that you use for regulatory decision making as based on medicine. I also hope that we were more like much more like a learning health system, which means that we’ve closed that feedback loop. So in addition to kind of bridging that evidence gap between a chasm between rebels improving care. You also are constantly learning from the evidence being generated from all these digital technologies. And, you know, I mean, now they say that most of the data about health care is generated obviously outside of the walls of a provider organization with all the digital technologies we have. If we can somehow cure rate all of these data types and these data assets to fully understand the patient experience and really tailor to develop those interventions for that individual and continuously learn from those experiences, that is the ideal state. So it’s really about creating a learning healthcare system. I know we’ve all said it, but I actually think that now there’s an appetite for their technologies in place to do it. I actually think many of the policy makers on board were putting in the necessary public policies and regulatory policies to make that happen. So I think the time is now. And for that I’m very, very excited about that.

Saul Marquez:
Well, the outcome is clear and it is very exciting, Chris, to have a future where regulators can accept real-world evidence in their decision making and it’s a big task. So, you know, I think what you’re doing is is very exciting and very promising. And I’m and I’m rooting for you and and your team successes as I know other listeners are, too.

Christopher Boone:
Thank you very much for your kind words.

Saul Marquez:
So, Chris, tell me about you know, you talked about setbacks. I’d love to hear maybe one of the setbacks that you feel has been the one that you learned most from.

Christopher Boone:
Wow. The one that I’ve learned most from. You know, I think that. Yeah. Because I don’t want to reveal any big organization or individual, but. But I will say that I say we all know that the only cost in this change. And I think that I’ve been in situations where I felt that we were making immense progress towards a goal, a shared vision, if you will. And then to have that derailed either by political organizational challenges is always a tough, tough pill to swallow, especially for people, because, you know, as I said before, for most people, I think that really come into this. Like myself, we come into health care because really, really about change, really Right.. And you really feel that the work you’re doing is really going to benefit the patient. And when you have a situation where whatever the end goal is, is now no longer attainable because of some situation, that’s a bit misleading. And so you do find yourself because, you know, unlike other industries that we tend to invest a lot of emotion and in addition to our cognitive abilities into our work. So you find that failure is that much more traumatic, if you will, because you’re not only picking yourself up from a psychological perspective, you’re picking yourself up from an emotional perspective, too, because you invest so much, then I think where we all have to do as leaders in this upcoming or emerging leaders in this space. It’s not necessarily divorce yourself from your emotion in this context, but just recognize we fully embrace that. Having some level of agility or recognize and embracing the change and being able to pivot is critical. Right. And I think that that will be the greatest piece of advice that I would have, what people would be able to adapt and adapt with the change. Don’t fight it on resistance because a change could actually be good. But you just have to be able to just brutally with a flow like water and all the changes that we see in the industry right now. And I think those things will continue and they will continue to happen at a much more accelerated rate than they have happened. So we need to be need to be prepared for that.

Saul Marquez:
Yeah, we get only control the controlables and flow like water. I hadn’t heard that one before. I love it. So what are you most excited about today, Chris?

Christopher Boone:
You know, I was talking to someone earlier today and they asked me a similar question. Not quite. We weren’t having a podcast. This is kind of constipated. You know, they asked me, like what we’re really facing right now. And I think what I told them and I said, actually, what excites me right now is actually this movement towards a kind of a much more open, integrated citizen science ecosystem where we’re truly like incorporating the patient voice and patient generated data into clinical research. And I think it just creates so much opportunity. I mean, you know, when you think about especially with our precision medicine efforts, I mean, definitely there. But even on a population health management, I think it creates immense opportunity. So I think, well, you know, where we are in this world today is really trying to bridge this very siloed industry, very fragmented industry and seeing more cross-sector collaboration. And I think, you know, the incorporation of the patient voice in a lot of the work that we do on a clinical research side is certainly critical and it hasn’t been under utilized, to say the least. Right. And so I think that I’m very excited about this push towards creating a much more integrated citizen science ecosystem.

Saul Marquez:
Yeah, I think that is exciting. And, you know, I’d also say, Chris, that I’m the general kind of horizon of health care. There does seem to be a a broader sense of consumerism and transformation in our midst. And so why do you think that is now the citizen science, the consumerism, why do you think that change is happening?

Christopher Boone:
I think there is there is certainly been, you know, all of the political, economic, social, cultural catalysts for change. And more importantly, you have these technology, technological enablers to make that happen. Realistically, Right.. I think before when we were you know, I say 20 years now we have this discussion who was on the panel. And I don’t think that there was an appetite from even a consumer, a patient community broadly as much as you have right now. You have people now that are very, very, very engaged in the daily management of the health care of themselves or their loved ones. Right.. And I figured. But if you were to ask the same person 20 years ago, we still very much operate in it’s very paternalistic health care paradigm where I was just like, I just do what I do and you hope for the better, right? But but now if I take an e-mail as much as a some of providers, in some cases, you know, I thinks that there is their own chronic condition because they do so much research and much of that information is being democratized, if you will, to the public. And anytime you have increased awareness and you have people that are much more knowledgeable, they’re now empowered to demand change and demand transformation and demand better care and then better medicines and demand better outcomes. Right. So I think it all starts with the patient. It all starts with empowering the patient with knowledge, empower the patient with decision making authority. And that’s really where the catalyst starts, because they demand more of their providers, they demand more of their payers, they demand more of the pharma companies, they demand more of their policy makers. So at the end of the day, the patient is only the center of all of this change and transformation.

Saul Marquez:
I think it’s awesome that. And I think it’s a great call out. If you could name one book that you’d recommend to the listeners, Chris, what book would that be?

Christopher Boone:
Well, you know, I think one of my all time favorite books is still Good to Great. And, you know, I’m I’m a student of leadership and I’m a student in building organizations, building high performing organizations. I will say and I love a good degree. But if somebody’s principles in that book that I think apply to general life, too. But, you know, that was probably the book that I would I would certainly think and suggest that people read.

Saul Marquez:
Great recommendation. And how about having coffee with somebody? If you could have coffee or lunch with anyone, who would it be?

Christopher Boone:
It has to be one person where you get to finding a coffee at lunch. I would want to sit around a table with a cohort of very.

Saul Marquez:
I think, by the way, it’s just, you know, wait a minute. Let me assemble a cohort.

Christopher Boone:
I don’t want to have to at all. I’m adding great question. But it just I was thinking I would like I would want it to be a round table some thought leaders and provocative individuals who are up to want a chance. That’s cool. So I think in my mind, if I’m imagining this kind of round table discussion where academics kind of absorb all of this knowledge and wisdom from each individual, I think what I would have certainly have Michelle Obama would be on that list. I think Malcolm Gladwell would be on that list. He would most would be on that list. Stevie Wonder would be on that list.

Saul Marquez:
Yeah.

Christopher Boone:
And I would have you know, I would have when I listen, if this because it’s a recent thing. And I guess he’s been I’m sure he’s actually Jony Ive from Apple.

Saul Marquez:
Yeah.

Christopher Boone:
The brains behind the iPhone. You know, designating the credit for being like this genius who actually developed and pioneered the design, the iPhone and the iPod and all these other Apple technologies, Right.. And right now, to have been ushered out of the organization where he spent the vast majority of his life and he’s played such a pivotal role in his success. I would just like to hear what he’s thinking right now.

Saul Marquez:
Yeah. What’s his name?

Christopher Boone:
Jony Ive, J o n y.

Saul Marquez:
Oh, yeah, that’s right. That’s right. Yeah. Uh-Huh.

Christopher Boone:
In your right hand guy. Steve Jobs. Know so everybody talks about Steve Jobs but they don’t mention Mr. Ive as much.

Saul Marquez:
He’s a design genius. Right.

Christopher Boone:
Yeah, design genius. So just think about like what were you thinking when you actually design the iPhone? And then I would want to know like what he’s thinking right now. And it’s just kind of a futurist, right.

Saul Marquez:
What’s next?

Christopher Boone:
Would be the future of digital technology going because obviously he’s he’s far ahead of us. You know, as far as how he imagines the world. Yeah, definitely, I’m a big Elon Musk fan, obviously. I think many people are, but, you know, I would also I would have to diversify the group and having some of some of the emerging leaders that are out there, too. And there’s two people that that really come up to mind that I’ve actually been just kind of tracking, so to speak. Not stalking the tracking. One woman, her name is Leila Janah, and she’s actually the founder of Samasource, which is a nonprofit that’s trying to connect poor women and children to the digital economy and all about addressing issues around global poverty. The other leader that I think it is, an emerging leader is Jay Kimelman, who started a nonprofit to address this issue around low cost, high quality education. So I think that that’s a those 2 those outbreaks that you almost have these kind of very industry veterans or more seasoned individuals who bring a very mature perspective when you have these individuals who have had recent experiences that they’ve been pioneers in. All right. And then you have these emerging leaders that are coming up with a very fresh perspective on the world and the global challenges that we experience and that I would just like to just hear from all of these innovative minds on whether the how music is now created, the future of electric vehicles to the future of education on a global scale. And I just think those issues are very important, very important to me personally. But I think they’re very important global issues as well.

Saul Marquez:
Man, give me an invite to that and the listeners are probably like is he’s going to be selling tickets to this thing because it sounds awesome. If you put this together. I’m there, Chris. Just let me know. I’ll buy a ticket.

Christopher Boone:
I’ll put that on my twenty goal. I love it. I love it. Oh, man, that’s great. That’s pride. The best answer we’ve had to that question ever. So nice job. Chris, what’s your number one health habit?

Christopher Boone:
Number one, health habit. It has to be meditation and prayer. Yeah, I think a sound mind, you know, the rest of the stuff falls in place. Right. So I think that being able to be able to focus, being able to be able to make sound decisions and to be grounded are things that are very important to me in a from a mental and a spiritual perspective, because I find for me when those things are out of balance, that everything feels like chaos. So I make a concerted effort to keep my mental and spiritual state in a very steady state, a calm state. And that’s usually I’m able to do that to meditation and prayer. Those are my big things.

Saul Marquez:
I love it. What’s the best advice you ever received?

Christopher Boone:
The best advice? Wow. I would say, you know. Well, first of all. Well, I’ll ask that question in 2 ways. First thing, I think that personally, I tend to live by one of my favorite quotes of all time by far is by Maya Angelou and I to. And I used to have it on my wall of a desktop every day. And she basically says, my mission in life is not only to survive, but thrive and to do so with some passion, some compassion, some humor and some style. And that is like my for me, it embodies everything that I feel and believe. And to me, that is the best advice anybody could have ever gave it. But the second thing that I would say that, you know, I don’t know my my Angelou, I actually read her stuff and that was that I was not mad at me. But sometimes someone gave me directly is to never let a single experience, whether it be a great accomplishment or achievement or for you, define you. I think that it can be for people to when they have an accomplishment, they think that’s just going to open the floodgates to every single thing. I was going to be a positive experience or they or they start to believe their own hyperbolic to say. So I think humility is very important in that regard. But I also think when it comes to failure, some of the greatest lessons, as I mentioned earlier for me personally have come to failed experiences. So it doesn’t have to define you. You learn from it and you build from it. So I think that those are probably the two things that I think I would say is the greatest advice from my Angelou. And also just from this mentor, you share that perspective.

Saul Marquez:
I love it, Chris. These are great. And as you were saying, um, I wrote both of them down just because they’re great. And I’m thinking about my two year old son. The thing about ways to shape him, I’m definite going to share this one. This last one with with him, because it’s one that I think and believe in as well. Chris, this has been a blast that I really enjoyed our our talk. And I wanted to just leave us with the closing thought. And the best place where the listeners could learn more about you and continue the conversation.

Christopher Boone:
Yeah. I mean, you know, it’s been a pleasure. Thank you for this. I always love the podcast because you it’s much of a free flowing conversation. And you just, I don’t like scripted conversations by I said it. I was I was great at the. But I think that if any of the listeners want to find that, you can find me. I’m on LinkedIn and Twitter, both using hippy, you know, I’m playing a set at the Happy. On linkedin and you can also use data in you can find me as well. And so I’m there. I’m always looking to connect with folks and just hear people’s stories. So please reach out. You know, I’ve had a great time, so thanks for making the final chat.

Saul Marquez:
Yeah. Chris, it’s been it’s been a pleasure. Looking forward to staying in touch.

Christopher Boone:
Awesome.

Thanks for listening to the Outcomes Rocket podcast. Be sure to visit us on the web at www.outcomesrocket.com for the show notes, resources, inspiration and so much more.

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