OR_SONSIEL_Nir Rosenberg: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.
OR SONSIEL Intro:
Welcome to the SONSIEL podcast, where we host interviews with the most transformational nurse scientists, innovators, entrepreneurs, and leaders. Through sharing their personal journeys, we create inspiration, provide guidance, and give you actionable ideas you can use to be a catalyst for change.
Hiyam Nadel:
Hey everyone, welcome back to the SONSIEL podcast. Today, I am so excited to introduce you to Dr. Nir Rosenberg, all the way from Israel. So Dr. Rosenberg is a plastic surgeon and I will have him introduce himself now.
Nir Rosenberg:
Hiyam, thank you so much for having me today. My name is Nir Rosenberg. I’m a plastic surgeon from Israel, with more than 20 years of experience, and I’m working in both the public and private healthcare system, and also I’m a lecturer in the School of Nursing.
Hiyam Nadel:
That’s incredible. So I always like to ask everyone, what really inspires you into getting into healthcare? Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Nir Rosenberg:
Yes, of course. So my career in medicine began in a military service as a frontline physician, and then I did a residency in plastic surgery to become an attending plastic surgeon, working in a hospital setting and community clinics. And today, what is most inspiring aspect of healthcare delivery is that every day we get to meet new people, we have the responsibility to improve their health, overall well-being. And in surgery, often we see the results of our treatment or what we do immediately, and this is very, very rewarding, and also, of course, plastic surgery is a very creative specialty. And many times we need to figure out innovative solutions for problems we are facing, sometimes it’s even during surgery itself, but of course, plastic surgery is also a very human-centered specialty, since every patient wants to look the same as before, right after the surgery, and even with no scars at all. And we all need to manage and address these expectation of both their physical and emotional aspects of surgery. And for me, of course, combining the science of medicine for patient care together with the human connection is very, very exciting.
Hiyam Nadel:
I agree with that, I love patients. But tell me, did did your role change during the pandemic, or did you continue to see patients for dermatology issues?
Nir Rosenberg:
Like every healthcare provider, we haven’t stopped, for a short bit. And we continue to see our patient because, you know, chronic conditions never went away and we have to continue to treat those patients.
Hiyam Nadel:
Yes. So just to pivot a little bit, as a teacher to nursing students for many years now, what can you tell us about this position and what advice can you give to our young generation of future nurses? And I also want to ask one other question, is this unusual, as a physician, to be teaching nursing students?
Nir Rosenberg:
Well, great question. Talking about all of my favorite activities is always great, Hiyam. So when I was a student at my school, I was always looking for that one teacher in every class or one doctor in every department were willing to share their knowledge with us and make the extra effort in teaching. And I believe that we all had these extraordinary teachers to remember and appreciate them. And today I try to do the same with my nursing students, because I think as clinicians, we have the obligation to provide our future generation of nurses the best teaching, education and values. And of course, as a physician, I think I can bring another perspective for nursing. I know my students will appreciate that I bring my expertise and my values and my knowledge into the class. And of course, over the years, I was blessed with wonderful and passionate students, many of them already graduated working to today in various nursing positions, hospital department, operating rooms, ICUs, ERs, and of course, community clinics. As a teacher, all my students, they have my personal phone number from day one in class, and I’m available for them outside of class, even with questions and advice, sometimes even personal ones, I’m sending them greetings for holidays and before exams to cheer them up. And we’ve created together a very large community of colleagues and friends during those years that have been teaching them, advice as well. What advice can I give to the students and the nurses? So first of all, always keep on learning, raise the bar for new things every day of your career, read every day, constantly improve your professional practice. Of course, find a mentor, an experienced and dedicated nurse who can guide you through your journey. And once you be more experienced, don’t forget, become a mentor yourself for the next generation. You know, the see-one-do-one and then teach one is a winning approach. Of course, listen to your patients, they will tell you exactly what they need, how you can help them, and respect them and their values. I have many patients, elderly patients, dome of them are Holocaust survivors, military veterans, great people who are actually building our countries, and I have so much respect for these patients. And this is so great to to to listen to them. And they help them, of course, nursing and healthcare are teamwork and interprofessional collaboration, as we all know that today. So you should encourage, appreciate each other because everyone has something to contribute. And you know, there are so many posts on LinkedIn written by graduate nurses, student nurses, starting the first position, I really love to comment and congratulate them because showing appreciation is very, very important. And of course take care of yourself, exercise on a regular basis, eat healthy food, listen to music, and music is great. I can’t imagine my OR without music.
Hiyam Nadel:
Yes.
Nir Rosenberg:
I know this sounds very trivial, we all know this, but we tend to forget it, especially when we start our career. It’s very important to remember this and of course enjoy, enjoy whatever you’re doing, because patient care is very, very rewarding.
Hiyam Nadel:
You know, I love everything you’re saying and I feel very passionate, especially in medicine today, it’s very complicated. And it’s it’s really a team sport and everybody brings a different perspective to the table. And I wish that would happen more. Ideally, sometimes you do have to go off, you know, a physician’s with physicians to try to solve things that only involve that. But really, I think from a broader view of healthcare and health, to come together from different perspectives and solve problems together is the most impactful. What are your thoughts about that? And I think you believe it just with everything you’re saying.
Nir Rosenberg:
You are so right, because, you know, this is what I did in one of my chronic wounds clinic in the hospital. I’m working with a nurse and we are always doing it together.
Hiyam Nadel:
Yes.
Nir Rosenberg:
See the patient together, we open the dressing together, we look at the wound together, we decide on which appropriate dressing we should use together. And there is no, it’s, it’s always together. We decide together. And the patient, they see it, they can’t ignore it. They see the connection and the relationship between us and they so appreciate it I think, we can, I can learn from everyone.
Hiyam Nadel:
It’s incredible. Especially during the pandemic, I learned so much from even the respiratory therapists, they were amazing. They saved us all, essentially. No, I agree with that. You also said something very interesting to me, which is really teaching the younger generation to really listen to patients. And I always worry that with increased technology, technology’s wonderful, but sometimes we can over-rely on technology, over-rely on those clinical things rather than really listening to our patients. And, and I, I now do the same when I’m teaching younger people like, yes, the monitors are telling you this, yes. But what is the patient saying to you? And put all those together should be sort of an adjunct rather than in place of. So I do love that you say that. So I think that I’ve always thought Israel is very innovative and I, and I’m always reading what’s coming out of there and stuff. But can you tell us more specifically about nursing innovation in Israel?
Nir Rosenberg:
Yes, of course. Well, you’re, you’re certainly right, because Israel is indeed considered a very innovation startup-friendly country. You know, we have so many successful high-tech startup companies and very general innovative mindset. But when it comes to nursing innovation, we still have so much to achieve because, you know, currently there are only a few nursing ventures in Israel when they should have been a lot more by now. And at first when I noticed that it was a little bit frustrating, but today I just consider this is a blue ocean of opportunities and this is what I’m currently working on because I truly believe that when we bring healthcare innovation into nursing in Israel, it will eventually promote the entire nursing profession and to give it a new and exciting perspective.
Hiyam Nadel:
I love that. Can you tell us any current or future activities within the nursing innovation?
Nir Rosenberg:
Yes, of course. Because I’m actually inspired by, inspired by activity of SONSIEL nurses, you all at the Center for Innovation in Care Delivery at Mass General Hospital and of course, American Nursing Innovation Center. And I’m currently working on two projects. So the first one is a full course in nursing, innovation and entrepreneurship for nursing students. And this course that I’m working on will include design thinking and creative mindset, business development of healthcare ventures, prototyping, testing the ideas during clinical rounds, how to write business and financial plans for the ventures, and eventually how to present and pitch their projects. And next year, we are opening a new school of nursing in Israel. I will be one of their core faculty members, we are four faculty core members. Two of us are nurses, two of us are physicians. So this would be a great opportunity for me to include this course into their curriculum. And the second project that I’m working on is opening a center for nurse-led innovation in one of Israel’s largest hospitals. I’ve already had a meeting with their chief nursing innovation officer and her staff. I was presenting my plans for such a center and I’m looking so looking forward to promoting this in the following months, and I’d be happy to share in the future. And of course, on a day-to-day basis, what we all should do is I’m spreading the word of nursing innovation among the nurses that I’m working with in various settings, and of course, with my nursing students.
Hiyam Nadel:
You know, and I think it’s great. I think what you’re doing is fantastic because you could educate and you could tell people and you can inspire them. But what I’m hearing and in my own experience as well, is to help them do it, to actually do it and go through that innovation, methodology, design, thinking, human-centered design. So, you know, and I think even in the United States, even though there’s this movement for nursing innovation is just beginning, but I feel like all of a sudden it’s taking lots of traction, which is really nice. Now, when you build out the Nursing Innovation Center at the new hospital, it’s a new hospital? Is that what it is? And, and what will be the components of that center?
Nir Rosenberg:
Okay. It’s an existing hospital.
Hiyam Nadel:
Yeap.
Nir Rosenberg:
It has many branches all around Israel, mainly centered in Tel Aviv. And the, my program is built on two pillars. One is to go to nurses inside the department, the clinics, and tell them, bring your ideas, bring your ideas, and we’ll start like you did, start, create something. We want to scale up your ideas, because when I presented my, my, my plans, one of the nurses said, well, we just invented something for one patient. Very, very interesting, very brilliant. But then I ask, what about scaling for which patient is this? Who is going to enjoy it? It should be scaled up, and this is one pillar. The other pillar is we’re going to bring nurses, who wants to learn and give a very short accelerator course in design thinking, innovation, entrepreneurship, because like we know as clinicians, no one teaches us these methods and we need to, to, to learn to, to, to teach them the methods of innovation, how to build their ventures, and, of course, how to advance them forward.
Hiyam Nadel:
And until yourself learning about the innovation methodology, do you feel like it’s changed the way you even approach problem-solving or coming out and inventing and innovating? It’s a bit of a different methodology, right? I think we think we know we make a lot of assumptions and then we solve it without really including that end-user who we’re solving for.
Nir Rosenberg:
Right! Because, you know, with an innovation mindset, what is great that you start to see things differently, you can start change what’s not working, create real value and it can be really smart, simple, creative things, you know, like the Unite Light invented by Jennifer Anthony from Mummify. And it was done during one of the Nurse Hackathons, where simply improving a healthcare process that isn’t working good enough. But we can do something very small but make a very large impact, but we need the tools. It’s like, it’s like healthcare. We need the language, you need the tools in order to make, to scale it up. If we want investors, of course, we have to speak their language and we have to if, we we learn that ourselves. And I think we are obligated to teach the ones that wants to go inside this great area of innovation.
Hiyam Nadel:
And I think it brings them a lot. Being creative is really bringing lots of joy too to the workforce, in my opinion, and that’s been my experience. So Nir, you’re doing a lot, obviously, you’re an innovator because you’re doing a lot of innovative things. So when did you first recognize in yourself that you were an innovator?
Nir Rosenberg:
Like, like, like I said, you know, healthcare providers and clinician, we are not taught about innovation, entrepreneurship, during training, not in med school, not in nursing school, or of course not doing my residency. So the first actual time that I realized I was an innovator was during an MBA in healthcare innovation I did a few years ago, was an intense one-year international program, and bringing together physicians and nurses, scientists, lawyers, entrepreneurs from all over the world. And we were all working together to address the challenges of healthcare. And during this program, we’ve learned the language and methods of innovation, entrepreneurship, how we can apply them for our everyday work, and, of course, how we can build sustainable ventures. Also, during this program, we had a study to San Francisco in the Silicon Valley. And we, we visited many healthcare, high-tech companies, medical centers, it was a very, very exciting experience for all of us. And this was my first exposure to innovation. And because I’m teaching nursing students for many years and always I’m working to bring them new things and inspire them, it was only natural for me to combine what I’ve just learned in innovation with my role as a teacher. And this is how I began my journey in healthcare and of course, nursing innovation.
Hiyam Nadel:
That’s fantastic. And I know I recognize you’re always on the SONSIEL meet-ups. So tell me a little bit, do you feel like SONSIEL is on the right track? Has it helped you in this journey? You know, because we’re trying to teach it and inspire and bring nurse innovators together. And we’re still, I mean, we’re still young, but we’re still trying to figure out how to teach and escalate. Can you tell me your perspective?
Nir Rosenberg:
Yes, of course. Well, first, one of the best things about SONSIEL is that I got to meet the amazing nurses, innovators, and leaders who founded SONSIEL. You know, through LinkedIn I met you and Maria Leary, Rebecca Love, Shauna Butler, Mary Ackerman, many more. I started by watching Rebecca’s TEDx talk about her journey in nursing innovation. We had our first Zoom meeting, which was great, and then I began to realize how big and exciting the world of nurse-led innovation is. And I joined SONSIEL in November 21. I participated for my first time in the Nasdaq for Health Hackathon, which was indeed an amazing experience. You know, over one weekend I met so many nurses innovators from all over the world, and we formed a group, a group called Parachute Team, and it is a group with nurses and nurse practitioners and nursing students, and we were figuring out an idea how to improve the well-being of nurses, nurse managers, and we presented our project during the hackathon and we are still working on this project and hoping to bring our solution to the market. And everything is, currently reading The Rebel Nurse Handbook, a book written by SONSIEL members. And this book is for everyone in healthcare and beyond, of course, because we can all be inspired by the stories of nurses who actually went out of their comfort zone to make a change so SONSIEL is really a wonderful tribe that we can belong to, and I’m very proud of this membership of mine because, you know, as innovators, sometimes we feel a little bit different than others in how we think and what we do, and we absolutely need this community. But also, of course, we should make SONSIEL a global movement and bring more and more nurses from all over the world to join. So, of course, I highly recommend every nurse with an innovative spirit to join SONSIEL because it’s great, we can do so many things together.
Hiyam Nadel:
So many things together. And it really, for me, brings I think innovation happens in silo and I think this global traction will bring innovators together. So we’re not all solving the same problem in silo and no one talks to each other, that’s what’s exciting for me. And you did mention that as an innovator, you know, you think differently, you act differently, and I feel the same way. So tell us a little bit more about the challenges you’ve encountered, not everything goes so smoothly.
Nir Rosenberg:
Right! You know, since, like I told you, nursing innovation is so new and unrecognized among nurses in Israel. So the biggest challenge I’m facing right now is to convince nurses in healthcare organizations and school of nursing, including nurse managers, nurse educators, how important it is to include nurse-led innovation within their organization. Because, for example, when I presented my proposed course of innovation for nursing students to deans of nursing schools, I got replies like, our students are so busy in their clinical studies and they will not be able to handle another course. Or maybe this should be an optional course for your students and so on. And I was expecting a much more enthusiastic well reaction, but you know that bringing new things from outside into existing organization is sometimes a little bit challenging. But since I truly believe in the importance of nursing innovation for the future of nurses and healthcare, my approach to overcome this hesitation is very, very simple, but I think effective. It’s called persistence, enthusiasm, and passion. It’s a winning composition because I’m sure that I will succeed. And once the first will join, the others will naturally follow.
Hiyam Nadel:
You’ve got all the qualifications of an entrepreneur. Persistence is number one.
Nir Rosenberg:
Right.
Hiyam Nadel:
And I think, and I know in my experience, you build credibility slowly, but that’s okay. You know, when I talk to people who are trying to do the same thing within their institutions is to take your time, really think it through, really try to solve especially your first problems that you would like to solve, try to solve them, that resonates not just with yourself and for the patient, but for the healthcare system. So think a little more broadly.
Nir Rosenberg:
Right.
Hiyam Nadel:
So, you know, what would, if there’s one thing or two things that you would like to leave the audience with today, what would that be?
Nir Rosenberg:
So a few of the things I really would like to leave our audience with is first and very important, find a purpose in everything that you do and then do it with excellence and passion, it shows. Also, of course, you should have communities to belong to, for encouragement and support, whether it’s family, friends, colleagues at work. And of course, always, always remember the human person behind the, behind the patient. And we should all take great care of our own health, both physically, mentally, because this is the basis for our best performance.
Hiyam Nadel:
I so agree. And if people wanted to reach out to you, Nir, is there a way to do that? Are you on LinkedIn?
Nir Rosenberg:
Yes, of course I am on LinkedIn and I will be very happy to connect, share my passion for nursing innovation and providing the best healthcare.
Hiyam Nadel:
Thank you so much, Nir. I always get so inspired by you. I could talk to you for hours and hours and I really appreciate you agreeing to be on the podcast. I think what you’re doing is just wonderful and I hope that all our listeners will be thinking about our nursing curriculum for the future. Thank you so much, Nir.
Nir Rosenberg:
Thank you so much, Hiyam. This was great. Loved talking with you.
OR SONSIEL Outro:
Thanks for tuning in to the SONSIEL podcast. If today’s podcast inspired you, we invite you to join our tribe or support our mission by visiting us at SONSIEL.org. That’s S O N S I E L.org.
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