How Second Opinions can Improve Care without Increasing Costs with Michael Yuz, CEO & Founder @ SecondOpinions.com / USARAD Holdings Inc
: [00:00:01] Welcome to the Outcomes Rocket podcast where we inspire collaborative thinking improved outcomes and business success with today's most successful and inspiring healthcare leaders and influencers. And now your host Saul Marquez
Saul Marquez: [00:00:18] Welcome rocket listeners welcome back once again to the Outcomes Rocket podcast where we chat with today's most successful and inspiring healthcare leaders. Do you love what you heard today or in general. I always ask. Go to iTunes subscribe and leave us a rating and review. We'd love to hear our listeners feedback. That's how we create content that's relevant to you and that's how we make sure that we're always putting the things that resonate with you to help you improve outcomes and decrease efficiency. So without further ado, I want to welcome our outstanding guest today. His name is Dr. Michael Yuz. He is the founder and CEO of USA RAD Holdings Incorporated as well as second opinions.com. Dr. Yuz has been in the business for quite some time. Traditionally trained as a radiologist he got into the entrepreneurial space and hasn't looked back and has been providing services to help healthcare providers deliver the best care possible. So really we want to welcome you Mike to the show.
Michael Yuz: [00:01:23] Thank you. Saul, I'm very honored to be on your show.
Saul Marquez: [00:01:26] Absolutely. So what is it that got you into the medical sector, to begin with, Mike.
Michael Yuz: [00:01:30] Well actually first I was an entrepreneur. I was on my first business venture.
Michael Yuz: [00:01:36] At age 14 and I never said I never wanted to get first to be a physician. My parents are not physicians. I don't have any ancestors or relatives or physicians. And I was very much into internet and computers. As a teenager, I started my venture in teenage years and I thought I wasn't going to be and you know we made in the technology business space but I actually match radiologist when I was 17 18 years old. I was accepted into my bachelor's and master's degree master's program for computer engineering. And I met a radiologist and she changed my mind. And the reason just remind me is I saw the student analogy was that we utilized back in the late 80s I was sleeping the hard copies and make something out of my head, I said look, this is going to be it will be a real illusion. Everything dies. And I told you know when I actually it's time when I met my current wife and we've been together for about 25 years. And she still reminds me every chance she gets. I told her look, I'm going to be sitting on the beach one day reading radiologist studies. I told them I was 18 and that was probably one of them a turning point why I wanted to go into a healthcare. And it was back then I knew I'm going to be a radiologist and also I'm you will be I'm going to be running some kind of a telehealthcare or telemedicine business so that's what had happened.
Saul Marquez: [00:03:11] Man that's super interesting Mike and what I love about your story highlights the power of a conversation. The power of that conversation. Your conversation with this gentleman that sort of tipped the scales and got you to focus on radiology for several years of your life. You know the power of a conversation when we talk to our customers or we talk to our patients. The power of a conversation is oftentimes underrated and that's where big movements for big things start including improving outcomes and so loved your story. Mike and I'm really glad that you shared it because it really highlights that important fact.
Michael Yuz: [00:03:46] Thank you, Saul. Yeah sometimes power for you. Few words that could be incredibly strong and can change the opinion of not just one person. Like in my case you could change the opinions of millions or even billions of people.
Saul Marquez: [00:04:01] Totally totally. So, Mike, you've been in the business and you've been on the provider side as well as the business side of health care for quite some time. What do you think a hot topic that should be on every medical leader's agenda today and how are you guys addressing it at USA rad and your other business.
Michael Yuz: [00:04:18] I think it's all about improving quality affordable healthcare and lowering costs and took power away.
Michael Yuz: [00:04:26] You can do this. You can do is more power to you. I mean there are many ways to skin a cat but that's really the big topic nowadays.
Saul Marquez: [00:04:34] Yes. So give us an example Mike how have you guys done that let's just say for instance at secondopinions.com
Michael Yuz: [00:04:47] Right so we can we sort of Holdings consists of two divisions.I started the division in 2008 and I am of the second opinion as telemedicine division. Just about four years ago and the way we do is until geology is right technology. So it's all about automation. So, for example, our business model is actually a lot of moving parts of a company. It's pretty simple. Now we get images and we just get into the right radiologist we always provide reports and then the records and the reports transmitted to the customers and then of course patients go and access those records as well. So we haven't. Oh, wait might get like a clock formation. There are multiples so special to geologists. We have a lot of Tooryalai is when you're on the clock. And each case is rounded with the proper radiologist. And it's sort of like to compare it to an older model in a way. Yes. The way we work internally the first three hours is available who's available will do the report will do the case. And that way we also improve turnaround time. So by introducing automation by improving turnaround time and making radiologists more efficient you know we are lower cost efficiency significantly but we also are adding another element to technology which is artificial intelligence and that's a very hot topic right now and radiology is really in the center which is just artificial intelligence and an amazing element of automation because it makes reality is even more efficient and more accurate.
Michael Yuz: [00:06:19] So this is really exciting what's happening know in healthcare and I'm so glad I made a decision in the 80s you know when I chose to be in this profession and I don't regret for sure because radiologist is always an image. Now the second part of it is second opinions and it's really the way we build our second opinion services is really modeled after the entire service. So, of course, we have 4000 physicians in every specialty especially some in America who are available on demand. Again the same idea you know by making them more efficient. They can do more cases. It lowers costs. We can actually lower the cost to our customers. And we've always been it's always been about high quality. We turn around time and lower cost competition and that's how we stay ahead of the game because if you do two or three it's not good enough for me. You have quality turnaround time. And of course the price.
Saul Marquez: [00:07:16] Now that's really interesting and so this second opinions Tom. Mike is this intended for the consumer of the services or is it something that that health systems use as well.
Michael Yuz: [00:07:27] Yeah great question. So when we started my goal was to bring this service to millions even billions of people around the world. So the way we build the model was actually consumer based but then, of course, we have many requests. We were raised by businesses by third-party resellers by institutions insurance companies, yeah attornies as well but we were very careful with that.
Saul Marquez: [00:07:57] You know I actually said employers and yes I know are not attorneys.
Michael Yuz: [00:08:06] They were asked to turn away a bunch of them because we have to be careful.
Michael Yuz: [00:08:10] But I think that this statistically number two reason why people browse the internet is to get really the second opinion online. When I get to the number one reason. And number two reason is really healthcare related resources. In addition, they want to get a second opinion.
Michael Yuz: [00:08:29] So it was billed as a consumer model and then we now technology to any third party resellers insurance companies, brokers whoever is institutes can use the service.
Saul Marquez: [00:08:44] Very interesting. And I think I don't remember the stats on this. Maybe you know them better than I do Mike but around the second opinions and you know the first one potentially hey you may not need a procedure.
: [00:08:55] So the several are probably two or three main reasons why people get a second opinion, of course, is only for surgery and those with a serious condition such as cancer.
Michael Yuz: [00:09:07] And of course if the doctor is in surgery. So from the cases that we were evaluated approximately at least 50 percent of the time, the surgery can be postponed or patient can be treated with conservative management or just medication or other less invasive options. So it's my modeling and this is really what to resolve in tremendous savings. You know imagine death you know if you do you know do surgeries I recommended and the surgery can be fifty to hundred thousand dollars. If we prevent even 10 percent of the surgeries from say and given a system my millions and millions of dollars.
Saul Marquez: [00:09:44] Oh yeah I would say even billions for the system. Right. Exactly. And my thought here Mike is if you're a large company that manages to 3-4000 employees and you notice that the cost of your health care seems to be going up year over year double digits is frankly what I'm what I'm hearing out there. Just a service like second opinions as a requirement for your people to actually evaluate before they just jump into the surgery can result in lower premiums and really just overall better outcomes.
Saul Marquez: [00:10:18] Surgery can be avoided that's not necessary.
Michael Yuz: [00:10:20] Absolutely, Saul. That extensive several extensive studies really. And one of the major institution I will not name those specific institutions.
Michael Yuz: [00:10:29] Several months ago they release a data and they found that 85 percent of kids that reviewed for a second opinion change the course significantly for their patient with memories. So this is not necessarily a day surgery but it could be no different treatment. Patient has been misdiagnosed and had a totally different condition and he was treated for. I mean it's mind-boggling. Eighty-five percent of patients may have a wrong diagnosis or wrong treatment or treatment as too aggressive or maybe treatment is not aggressive. You know some people may have cancer for example which are not diagnosed so it's just it's mind-boggling. So although power and indifference we can manage for so many people.
Saul Marquez: [00:11:12] Yeah for sure. I love this. You know and it's all about being thoughtful about the approach. And it sounds like your business. Second opinions really help people be that much more thoughtful in what could potentially be something that's not as clear and not an area of expertise for them.
Michael Yuz: [00:11:27] Yes absolutely so it will make a difference every day for so many people and we love hearing stories almost on a daily basis. We can help patients and we know science to continue this mission.
Saul Marquez: [00:11:41] Hey so Mike give us an example of one of your proudest medical leadership moments today.
Michael Yuz: [00:11:47] Sure sure.
Michael Yuz: [00:11:48] So from the standpoint of the business or the medical leadership experience I was very proud when two years ago Siemens ventured capital approached us and they evaluated many companies and he found us to be really special and different in the category that were looking for which is a medical diagnostics as well as Second Opinion Space and so they decided to partner with the investment company and then they also really opened the doors to us to expand globally and internationally I mean their presence obviously in every part of the globe. They are the largest diagnostic company and radiology laboratory in either of those areas and very proud that they decided to partner with us. So that was probably my proudest medical entrepreneurial moment.
Saul Marquez: [00:12:39] So now that's really you know it's great to have a large partner like Siemens really just kind of validate what you're doing and become interested because really it becomes an opportunity to scale and take it to the next level because ultimately we could improve outcomes locally but we're really looking for ways to scale and bring this to the globe.
Michael Yuz: [00:12:59] That's the whole point. I always say if you're going to invest your energy and do some things why not do something big and really on technology we are able to really help so many people. And with Siemens outreach now we just announced a few months ago the technology that they released called the ecosystem as a team play.
Michael Yuz: [00:13:21] So every Siemens customer will have access to their strategic partners like us. So imagine you are a patient in Ohio or are you a patient you know in Nigeria and you undergo MRI examination. You know you are able to have access to a team a team of some of the best physicians and that is where you are just because she wants to get a scan the next step you may need a neurologist orthopedic surgeon or oncologist so. So the whole full gamut of services professional services.
Saul Marquez: [00:13:55] Now that is super exciting and congratulations to you and your team Mike for getting that honor and looking forward to seeing how that develops. What would you say a setback you've had Mike. You say it's not all rainbows and sunshine. Share a setback that you've experienced and then potentially get out of it.
Michael Yuz: [00:14:11] Yeah absolutely. Everyone has setbacks.
Michael Yuz: [00:14:15] I think I would have to say so I ran the company I'm a CEO of the company but I cannot run on my own. So I rely on people. I'm very proud of the people and we were able to bring on board. But I will say that beside me was by bringing in more people and the mistake that I made was by looking at the CV and in turn people as a whole.
Michael Yuz: [00:14:39] I think that anybody can get lucky anybody can succeed. I think you have to lose that pattern of success. And also we also have to look how are you able to work with certain people. And then we judge the book by its cover so to speak. Yes, I made some mistakes by probably hiring a couple of people which probably caused some setback for the company but overall I think I'm proud of having an amazing team.
Michael Yuz: [00:15:08] It's really hard Saul to find the right people. And it's not just me I think if you speak with CEOs and that's really the biggest challenge. You know to find the right people.
Saul Marquez: [00:15:19] Yeah it's definitely one of the big ones that the guests on the show will bring up as one of the biggest challenges of being a leader and what would you say Mike, obviously you made some good great choices and you know some that haven't worked out. I've done the same thing I've hired people that haven't worked out.
Saul Marquez: [00:15:34] And boy can they create a mess and then hiring the right ones. But what would you say One or two pearls that you've gotten out of your hiring experience to get the right teams in place. What are one or two pearls that you do with the leaders. Yes.
Michael Yuz: [00:15:49] So you look at a pattern of success. So like I said anybody in the company you know a great one time a lot of it is time. You can have the best idea in the planet but you'll never get anywhere because the timing is off.
Michael Yuz: [00:16:06] Usually people who are really you know have succeeded or may made anything they touched.
Michael Yuz: [00:16:13] Yes. And it's very rare when those people when they really exist. If you also look outside of the industry don't get too attached. You know somebody who was you know made it an amazing thing. You know a few years back you were 10 years ago and wasn't your space.
Michael Yuz: [00:16:32] That's the biggest mistake people make.
Michael Yuz: [00:16:34] Look at all the industries look at the current reasons of success look at them reputed success also look at people that are 24/7.
Saul Marquez: [00:16:44] What do you mean by that. Mike 24/7 you know like me people don't sleep when you do it.
Michael Yuz: [00:16:51] I got to be able to call my manager or executive and say to them and say Do you have a problem. Can you help me. So especially now business which is 24/7 diversified. That's probably one of the pearls you know willing to work on the weekends. They commit it to you 100 percent. You all do they have an agenda because you want to really see what they want to do. So those are some of the pearls. that's really helpful Mike and appreciate your sharing by the way I want to share with you. I'm able to work actually 24/7, 365 65 and I don't demand any money. I think when I was I was in college I actually discovered that I actually didn't need sleep. And sleep is you know don't try to home sleep is extremely important. But I was able to you know be with someone who buys laptops that have a solid state memory. Yeah. So I was able to discover that I'm kind of like hard drive with a solid-state memory that my brain can be shut off and on within milliseconds so I can't get into deep sleep and have enough sleep but I can sleep on three of the four or five hours a night if needed. Of course. I normally sleep. You know everybody else for six hours but I'm able to function for days without real sleep. Long sleep but I can sleep a few minutes and fully and fully recover. So that's fine. And that's I want I'm here.
Saul Marquez: [00:18:20] You're a superhuman. Mike, you are a superhuman. Are you sure you're not a robot?
Michael Yuz: [00:18:25] You know what I do think of myself as a robot winterization. That's funny man. Understand I don't understand easily the mosque is my hero and I miss him and he doesn't because I think I think he probably has that same ability.
Saul Marquez: [00:18:44] You got to leverage your towns and whether it be not being able to function without much sleep or being on or stay able to understand people or are understanding chemistry whatever it may be leverage your strengths and focus them in this area that we're all very much caring about which is improving health outcomes. Now that's interesting to note. OK, Mike, this is the part of the show where you and I put together a little medical leadership course and what it takes to be successful in medicine. It's the 101 course of Dr. Mike for all the listeners. OK. So it's four questions. It's lightning round. I'm going to ask you the question you give me a brief answer and then we finished the syllabus with the book that you recommend for the listeners. You ready? Awesome. Yes. I'm like What is the best way to improve healthcare outcomes.
Michael Yuz: [00:19:36] I think the best way to improve outcomes is by offering choice and bringing transparency to consumers. Clearly, this is the engineering behind the secondopinions.com into play the ability to really question am I treated properly do I have the right diagnosis and clearly the studies or major institutions that show 85 percent change in course. You know the rationale diagnosis is that it's clearly you know my value and I believe that's transparency and choice and questioning is what it's all about.
Saul Marquez: [00:20:08] What is the biggest mistake or pitfall to avoid.
Michael Yuz: [00:20:11] Right well I think probably the answer that is avoid the wrong people when applying. Yes. So hiring the right and the right people it's all about people it's all about the team. One person cannot do. I wouldn't be anywhere without my wife for example who's always been there for me or the great team. I have right now.
Saul Marquez: [00:20:30] How do you stay relevant Mike as an organization. Despite constant change.
Michael Yuz: [00:20:34] Right. Well, you have to know. I'm probably Saul sounds crazy but I wake up I don't sleep many hours but I wake up every day with probably several ideas. So now I write them all down or do you just think about them sometimes write them down.
Michael Yuz: [00:20:49] But think of myself as a musician who some do really well in music. I wake up every day with an idea and you know some idea is crazy in my room and my people close to me with some crazy ideas on the radio today they may be amazing potential in the future. But some of them are relevant today some of them you know two years or 10 years. So innovation is the only way and improvements when you have I will not sell you know unless we do something different and we implement something you're pleased with something new and exciting company once a week.
Saul Marquez: [00:21:25] What is one area of focus that should drive all else in the company right.
Michael Yuz: [00:21:29] Well I think that we have a common goal is to make a difference so we can help really millions even billions of people. That's really what drives us.
Michael Yuz: [00:21:39] For me it's about making a dent in the universe. And I was. This is something that drove me when I was a teenager and I never stopped. I never stopped dreaming and never stopped taking that one at a step.
Michael Yuz: [00:21:52] Now when we have helped maybe thousands of people I know soon will be making news for millions and millions of people.
Saul Marquez: [00:22:00] And finally Mike what book would you recommend to the listeners at some time. All right. You got two of them for us.
Michael Yuz: [00:22:06] Yes. One is biography called Elon Musk. I think it's amazing. It's amazing, love that. Yeah.
Michael Yuz: [00:22:14] And a second one my favorites at all times is zero to one by Pether Thiel you know this one, Saul? You know what.
Saul Marquez: [00:22:21] It was actually recommended by one of our guest Scott Becker. I picked it up Mike and it was unbelievable. I loved it.
Michael Yuz: [00:22:28] Yeah OK. So it was recommended. So anyway it's all about thinking outside the box outside your comfort zone. Any time in my experience of my life any time I reach some kind of goal of success I get really bored. So I I break out of the zone and I do something else and I take risks. You know I could just in my example as a medical doctor I couldn't just practice medicine and you know the radiology and you know what specialties is living a comfortable life. I broke it through that comfort zone so many times. So and again some people think I'm crazy because I think I'm taking a huge risk. I want to Chow's one-two houses. Know she had to sell one house when I was 17 years doesn't require a lot of resources. It's going gangbusters. I can tell you I mean look at the Elon Musk man the guy made almost 20 million selling one of these companies, that's eBay right. And then you took everything he had every penny and he was he was basically living on the streets. I mean I love that. It's totally nuts of them someone to do that. I'm kind of like them as well. I take a lot of risks without risks. You're going to be staying the same place.
Saul Marquez: [00:23:44] Now that's a great message Mike and I could definitely hear the passion in your voice. I love it. And you know and if everybody can come at it with that passion that Mike is sharing with us it's just a matter of time because the health care system that we have it's it's already fixed. But it's how we approach it and how we cut and slice it and how we optimize it that's going to give us the health system that we all deserve and that includes new technologies new approaches and approaches with the passion that Mike has. And boy let me tell you it's only a matter of time before sustained thought gives us the answers that we're looking for. I agree. Thank you so much. Thank you, man I appreciate the passion that you bring. So we're close to the end here. The last thing that we're going to ask you to do Mike is share closing thought and then the best place where the listeners can get ahold of you.
Michael Yuz: [00:24:35] Absolutely, Saul. I would give very simple advice. Actually, a smart person once told me you know many years ago and he was very successful he sold his company to GM. It was probably one of the first PACS systems. And I'll never forget that Mike, The harder you work the luckier you get. So it cannot be more true.
Michael Yuz: [00:24:55] It's all about the size and passion and everyone has passion, has ideas right but ideas.
Michael Yuz: [00:25:04] You know without hard work. Basically, they'll call you crazy, dreamers. So it's easy to have ideas and I mean so many people with amazing ideas on them they just give so listen never give up work all your butt off and obviously, you gotta work pretty smart so you got to find the ways. Sometimes you have to find shortcuts from point A to Point B. And that's very important. Otherwise, it'll take you two months or years what can be done in one day. Right. So you got to be very efficient to achieve success to your goals. And last one is think outside of the box. Don't treat people, especially healthcare, have this mentality you know. And it's really something does nobody thought of and then test for it. Every great idea you got to you know a lot of fail a lot of will not hold out. But you got to think of some experiments with some amazing ideas and you'll be surprised you know one out of a thousand ideas that you wake up with will actually work.
Michael Yuz: [00:26:06] And it means a huge difference. You again the Elon Musk many times interview. He's really my hero. So that's one day, of course, I drive Tesla as well. One day you'll have a fully automated car and you know what it's really 90% there. So on a highway, it is fully autonomous while the technology goes. Somebody like suddenly would drop the price because space x company two hundred times the price of a spaceship the same thing, for example, Jonathan Roberts a hero of mine for example in Jenae. I know him personally I met him and he is a gentleman who lowered the price of a DNA sequencing by you know thousands of times. So he's the guy before him.
Michael Yuz: [00:26:56] It goes from a thousand dollars to sequence your genome.
Michael Yuz: [00:26:58] And he made it because the prize is a thousand dollars. So it's hard work innovation and working very efficiently anyway.
Michael Yuz: [00:27:07] I'm gonna shut out at this point.
Saul Marquez: [00:27:09] Now you this is great but this is this has been so much fun and I really appreciate the words of wisdom that you've shared here with us and I'm excited for the listeners to really dive in and get to better understand the healthcare system through your words and get that inspiration but also to understand that they have to take action in order to make things happen because a graveyard is filled with millions of ideas. And so they want to take a second time here to thank you for being on the show Mike and looking forward to staying in touch with you.
Michael Yuz: [00:27:42] Saul thank you so much.
Michael Yuz: [00:27:44] And I think you know you do an amazing job and a lot of people are really really educational.
Michael Yuz: [00:27:49] I'm sure they learn a lot and it's very helpful.
Michael Yuz: [00:27:52] So looking forward to staying in touch and we'll talk soon.
Outro: [00:27:59] Thanks for listening to the Outcomes Rocket podcast. Be sure to visit us on the web at www.outcomesrocket.com for the show notes, resources inspiration and so much more.