Transforming Virtual Care with Video-Based Vital Signs Monitoring with David Maman, CEO of Binah.ai transcript powered by Sonix—easily convert your audio to text with Sonix.

Transforming Virtual Care with Video-Based Vital Signs Monitoring with David Maman, CEO of Binah.ai was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the latest audio-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors. Sonix is the best audio automated transcription service in 2020. Our automated transcription algorithms works with many of the popular audio file formats.

Saul:
Welcome back to the Outcomes Rocket, Saul Marquez here. And today, I have the privilege of hosting David Maman.

David:
David is the CEO and founder of B, not a I. They’re a company focused on developing the only video based vital signs monitoring application using artificial intelligence technology. He guides the team in fullfilling be not a eyes vision and has a masters in computer science from Open University. He’s a serial entrepreneur with experience, working with a variety of different companies with 24 years experience in leadership. A.I. Cybersecurity Development and networking. He is an extraordinary contributor to the space. And in today’s interview, we’re going to be diving into how video based vital signs monitoring can change the game for telemedicine, but also healthcare as a whole. David, such a pleasure to have you join us here today. Thank you. Thank you for having me, so.

Saul:
So, David, you know, fascinating work that you guys are up to at Binah. seems to be kind of a core of of what’s going on in health care now that it’s become more real, it’s out of the hype cycle. I want to dive into that during our our discussion today. But before that, I want to take a peek into what inspires you and your work in health care.

David:
So I think that since since I can even remember myself, I was always into multiple aspects of healthcare, not just from a preposition point of view, not just from a patient point of view. When I was younger, I actually had to be in a hospital for over a year when I was really young. And I think it was all always an area that was close to my heart. And when me and my two co-founders started B, now, we always knew that that’s where we’re heading. If you know the way we actually adopted a few other aspects, but healthcare was the core of everything.

Saul:
Yeah. That’s that’s awesome. So tell me a little bit about B now. Like what does it mean? And and then sure. Maybe we could take that into exploring the value proposition to the healthcare ecosystem that you guys offer.

David:
Sure. So Bina actually is a Hebrew word that if you take it as a easy translation, the world of Binah means intelligence. And yeah. And and but if you work, go really biblical on that old testimony style. So the word means actually to move from intelligence to wisdom, which is interesting. Just a better way. Funny story at the recent sea. Yes, we had a boost there and I was standing in the booth waiting for Best Buy’s and other meetings that I had. And suddenly a guy came in. I see on his tag, Iran. And he asks me right away, are the founders are Iranians? So I said, no, we’re from Israel, so of course, he opened his eyes widely and said, Israel. So I said so. He asked me, why did you call the company? You know. So explain them. The world we now mean means intelligence. And he said, you know, in Farsi is language spoken in Iran. The meaning of the word, Binah, is the guys that’s for seeing the future. So just a few months ago, I understood that we also have an Iranian name, which has always been pretty cool. Yeah, that’s pretty cool. I love that. I love that. That’s a great story. And it was really nice. By the way, we shook hands. It was nice.

Saul:
That’s awesome. What a great interaction there. And, you know, just the power of a name. Right. I mean, it’s hard to green things. And what you guys are doing is as fascinating. The things they start processing. And I’ve video capture. It’s about understanding, intelligence, future seeking. I mean, just it all kind of works out. So great work on the name. Let’s dive into the value provided here. So help me understand what you guys do and who is helping, because obviously we have a lot of health care stakeholders. But but you guys helping you might be all of them. It’d be great to hear about it.

David:
I think you just nailed it. It’s all of them. And I’ll explain how come. So what we’re doing it B now, we’re actually the only app based solution that can extract vital signs just out of the purse, out of the person at the end of the line. And when I’m seeing the end of the line, it means over a video session. Mean just holding a smartphone and we’re able to truly extract medical grade accurate vital signs. So today, everyone, as you just mentioned, a I I. Is a marketing definition. Let’s be honest. And when people talk about Right. can be a lot of things that can be machine learning. It can be fuzzy logic. It could be deep learning. It can be if it’s some sort of general algorithms and so on. But we actually have embedded a very interesting combination of signal processing, which means how we can actually extract signal out of a specific flow of data. In this case, it can be a video. It can be a session, a recorded session, an already ongoing session, Real-Time session and multiple A.I. capabilities to extract vital signs. Because when people talk about health care, I think that’s many times we have to understand that any kind of interaction with a patients or with a potential patients have to start with us understanding which statea is. And many times it’s a question here. Do you feel sick? Do you have a high heartbeat? What does your oxygen saturation, how exactly you’re feeling? You know, it’s it’s a basic question here. But what if I can just TransFair five different medical equipment that’s plugged to the person’s body and can extract heartrate, heart rate variability, oxygen saturation, respiration rate, blood pressure and a lot of different vital signs. And we can do that just by using a software.

Saul:
So are you are you doing it? So are you actually using devices to capture it or are you doing all of this through video and audio?

David:
Capture all of this only through video.

David:
No audio not additional device, not additional sensor. You don’t need anything else besides a video of the person’s face. Mm hmm.

Saul:
That’s fascinating. So as it sits today, David, were you guys at. You know, you guys an FDA approved device? Are you are you able to provide diagnostic information? Tell me a little bit more about where you sit in that regulatory environment and what you guys can and can’t deliver.

David:
So the regulatory, I guess, processes, we’re in the process with four different entities, OK, with the FDA, we see in Europe, with PMDA in Japan and with Canada Health and Canada. Mm-Hmm. And prior to I believe that some of them will already be approved this year. But during this process, at the meantime we are what’s called a wellness. Or we can call it monitoring solution.

Saul:
Yep, that makes sense, makes sense. So it’s all in the process right now or approvals, but. AVC You know, I mean, you don’t have those you can’t really claim diagnostic, but nevertheless, there’s there’s monitoring capabilities. And let’s talk about who is benefiting from this right now. Because the transition is clear. Right. And you guys are a wellness player right now because you have to. But when you get these these these approvals, the game changes. So let’s talk about who’s benefiting now and who’s gonna benefit later.

David:
So just a few days ago, this was a really cool article in the Montreal Gazette about how one of the largest hospitals in one trial. It’s called the Jewish General is actually using GA’s technology as part of a true yosh happens in the hospital because today when when people, of course, gets to the hospital specifically with the cold at 19, you have to start extracting vitals and every type of interaction you have with the person, you have to touch him. You have to plug in multiple devices. That’s create additional a risk factor for the nurse, for the doctor and for everyone. And using our technology just by having a tablet or a smartphone in place and the. Well, we’ll send you the link, which can be very interesting for also old listeners just by using those STANAFORTH technology. You can actually extract all the vital signs. And the general knows that we don’t have a Canada Health approval yet, but he’s testing it with over 20 doctors to validate the accuracy of our reads.

Saul:
Well, now is the time, you know, I mean, you we had a try in these, you know, in this covered 19 era. We’ve got to try different things because you know what? What we have in place today is not getting us there. And if you’re telling me what you’re telling me, I mean, the opportunity for somebody that believes might have the symptoms if they could just turn on their smartphone or their laptop or tablet and get a preliminary kind of baseline understanding that could then be used to gut check and, you know, triaged could be very interesting.

David:
Yes, sir. Exactly. And, you know, finally, with the 19, at first, everyone was focused that the core interest is temperature. Everything is about temperature. You know, that’s what the videos that we’ve seen coming out of China. People in cars in street corners are checking temperature from everyone. But as information started to come out also from Eataly, the information was remarkable. We can up to the understanding that over 40 percent of the people that actually got to respiratory failure did not had above average temperature. Which is amazing. And the the I think the key indicator they found out to be the most added value is actually oxygen saturation. Any time you’re below 93 percent, you should see a doctor. And that brings us to exactly what you said, that the entire self-assessment point of view. And do they you know what? The coffin. It’s going crazy today. And you see what’s happening in New York in a lot of different other places. All right. Spain and Italy. But the thing is that what happens if two million people try to count to go to the hospital or to any kind of a, you know, center for health services? Yes. The entire system fails. And using those kind of technologies today, using self-assessment capabilities that you can actually have just with an app, tremendously reduce this kind of a I guess, an exposure to those kind of clinics and hospitals. And this is something that was already in the process in Canada and the general now is checking it out. And we believe that duringa and, you know, with the expedited processes that are available in kind of the health and FDA and everything, the submission to get those approval might be much, much faster because we already conducted clinical trials. We already in the process. So it might be helping us to expedite the process to be approved by all those go kind of at a all you. But sorry for joining the conversation to a different direction. You asked straightforward, who are the benefits? Who benefits from this kind of technologies?

Saul:
Sure. Yeah. No, I mean it’s a it’s a it’s a great discussion. David so it doesn’t it’s all good. And and the beneficiaries after the discussion are clear. Right. It’s the it’s the health care providers. It’s the really I mean that everybody, you know, like public health because you’re not overwhelming the system.

Saul:
It’s it’s it’s the payers because, you know, it’s it’s it’s probably more efficient and less costly to administer something like this. And that’s, you know, and it and the issue that that that oftentimes becomes the obstacle to overcome is reimbursement. You know, in and in the era right now where you just you really more care about taking care of patients and and the providers. Reimbursement becomes a second thought, you know. What happens when we get past this and how does how does because like in non-factual, I imagine. Yeah, I would say what’s your reimbursement strategy?

David:
So reimbursement is it is a very wide question because you have so many different options how to leverage those kind of capabilities to find how the reimbursement can work. But just to give you an example, before everything started before covered just last year, one of our key customer was actually the biggest insurance company, Japan. Their names are simple and simple. Use that because, you know, the entire, I guess, mechanism of insurance companies is the ability to assess risk. That’s what they’re doing and that’s their entire business model. How do I assess risk correctly and then how do they charge accordin accordingly and Right. using binos technologies, they’re able to extract vital signs and also mental stress in order to better estimate the risk in life insurance and health insurance and almost in any type of insurance today. So this is also another direction and another paying customers should have today that are able to have an ongoing vital Sunde instructions to better estimate the risk. So health care providers, this is the big I guess, you know, most of them are in mayhem now. And if we are able to truly help those kind of providers to have the option to obstruct this kind of information, to have a better decision to help and to self-assessment during the telemedicine session, in the conversation, once you have with the patients, all those providers are able to truly make a better decision.

David:
Maybe the person doesn’t know. And, you know, most of us don’t have an oxy matter to measure our oxygen saturation at home. All right. Yes. And this is the key benefits. But in the long run, any telemedicine provider, any remote patient monitoring, any type of nursing homes, that sometimes it’s very hard to plug multiple devices to elderly people. And also the bloodflow is not the same at the hands after the age of 80. And we have those kind of capabilities that we also help to insurance companies, as I mentioned. But another aspect that can be really interesting is actually automotive, because at first it doesn’t make sense. But think about that. Everyone is talking about autonomous vehicles. Right.. And I thought it was vehicles, you know, and everyone is focusing about what’s happening outside of the car, you know, that you won’t run into a wall. But what happens if you go down stairs and you take an autonomous taxi to the airport and you get a heart attack, a corpse will get to its destination. And using those kind of capability to happen in Kabban, vital monitoring and liveliness and monitoring to make sure just that the person is alive, nothing more than that, not even alert them on, you know, an extreme low level of oxygen saturation, which is also an option that’s becoming a critical. And the liability moves also to the car providers for sure.

Saul:
Now, that’s a that’s that’s very like that’s very future thinking there. But that’s not probably not too far. Tara, right now I’m not far at all. Now, fascinating work.

Saul:
David. And, you know, it’s it’s neat to to be wearing the hat of of of tomorrow because it’s closer than we think. And and so tell me about how. What you do and what your team does, they’re at at Binna, how you guys have improved outcomes or made business better. I was enjoy a good story or maybe an example of of of a customer here would be nice.

David:
Sure. So be not. We’re known about 45 people, about half of the companies are actually p_h_d_ and mostly in physics because we are dealing with signal instructions and video analytics and a lot of the option to extract vital signs out of the video. So at Benard, you know, when we started and we started offering this kind of solution, a lot of companies first of all, it sounds like magic how using just a video, you can extract all the vital signs when we get into the details and explaining, listen, we are doing a B, an RPG remotes for the Palestinian graphic, which means, you know, with the back of any smartwatch today, you have those two blinking lights. And we are extracting the same signal just out of the person’s face. So whatever you should see with an Apple Watch or what a Fitbit or a garment you can actually see with Benaras application only. So regarding the businesses, when we started offering, there’s a lot of concerns regarding the ability. And, you know, at first when you’re a startup company, you cannot afford going to FDA and other types of approval. Right. And so we found that we had to find those kind of an early adopters businesses. And then we came across a sample, which was really surprise because Japanese organization are not known to be very flexible. Right.. The actually the processes is extremely long with those kind of corporations. But when eventually we came across those kind of people in simple and also in actually in a very interesting company in the US which called Wamba that manages medical records for insurance companies, those kind of our early adopters point of view truly showed us, I guess, that this is a feasible business plan and everyone needs this information.

David:
But not a lot of people were actually, I guess, promising in truly adopting those kind of an early technologies. Because think about it. We believe that during the next few years, you will have about 20 different vitals extracted just from your smartphone, which means a lot of industries are going to change. The number of times that you truly need to go to, the doctor will be reduced by over 90 percent. The number of times that the doctors will need to talk with you even will be reduced dramatically, because if your mobile phone can extract all your vital signs and in the future we can talking about the glucose blood level, we’re talking about temperature, about lipid, about a lot of different things that we’ve been able to prove that we can do that using a video and using your smartphone only so your entire personalized health care is going to change. And finally, we see a lot of customers that are moving forward with us and even though we’re in the process of FDA and other types of regulation and approvals, but a lot of them are willing to try it out to have a quick trial, to try it over a few hundreds of people, to approve it internally and to move forward and looking into the future.

David:
So what I’m trying to say here, that the first it was really challenging in just the past quarter, we had over 30 organizations already integrating our capabilities from clinics to a lot of different telemedicine companies that have provided the remote assessment to triage. And the feature that was just published two days ago about how actually e are in major hospitals need this kind of technology and what they call it. That was the core boost for the past quarter is the self-assessment capabilities. And I think from a covered 19, I think we can divide a group of people to four major groups of people, people that are just quarantined, you know, according to the government decision, and they have no any symptoms or not even any suspect. The second part are people that been exposed to covered 19 infected people and those have a much higher probability to get symptoms. The third group is actually people that have been detected with call it. Some of them have symptoms. Some of them not have symptoms yet, but have been truly detected and been identified as colvard patients. And the fourth group is actually people that been recovering and recovered from Colvert, but also have to have an ongoing assessment to make sure that everything is maintained in a very better way. Let’s put it that way.

Saul:
So now I did it. It’s fascinating work. David, and and, you know, just just thinking through what what possibilities exist. You know, there’s there’s there’s a huge opportunity for the technology. And as people, you know, think about implementing these sort of things. The questions come up. And it could be an entirely different podcast that digging into the engineering data into, you know, how it works and the risks and all that stuff like the day that goes to to give you all listening to this today explosion two are really interesting and what seems to be promising technology with Bina.

David:
And I’ll summarize it. The bottom line is that using a mobile only you can extract vital signs remotely in a medical great accuracy from anyone. That’s the bottom line.

Saul:
Is the bottom line a lower end and so be not that I as be-I and Nessa H that I. Yes. So I want to make sure to to. To not lose that opportunity for you all to check them out. Now, diving into the next phase of this. David, what would you say is one of the biggest setbacks you guys have experienced? And what was the key learning out of that that’s made you guys better?

David:
I think that to be honest, customers don’t care about technology. They won’t understand how which works. But they need to see the bottom line. They need to see the results. They need to see the accuracy. They need to see the studies. They are all aimed about the added value and not to the proposition, as is because we are is in a company where an enabler. We are providing an SDK, which means a software development kit that can enables any anyone that have a mobile app to embed our capabilities inside of their app. And at first, you know, we were so excited from that technology, we thought that everyone would love to explore it and to try it, but without having a real bottom line numbers, bringing any accuracy regarding correlation regarding the device that was comparedwith, regarding the signature from clinical trials, that was a I guess, you know, it sounds completing making sense from people from the industry, but they never sold any kind of medical solutions in the past. You know, it was it was a setback at first, but we us eventually.

Saul:
For sure. For sure. And so you guys have pivoted. And so are you offering it as as an NSD case still to these employers or have you repurposed a solution?

David:
So the SDK is the core offering of. Tonight, we are providing any application provider from insurance companies in Japan. Clinics in the U.S. now even a hospital in in in Canada. The option to implement all of our capabilities inside of their app and this implementation actually take days, by the way.

Saul:
Very cool. Very cool. Hey, good for you guys. I mean, this is this is promising. And and for those that believe and want to see things like this work, I think the future is in your hands and our hands. And for those that only be careful because there’s going to be some transformation that you already see happening right now. And be nice part of that transformation. So exciting to have had this discussion with you. What what would you say you’re most proud of? David, what are you most excited about?

David:
To be honest, helping people. I know it sounds very naive. Yes. Winning in the most, I guess, money oriented than capitalist oriented industry. But the thing is that I sleep better at night when I’m focusing on health care and not on financials or even cybersecurity or anything like that. I think the added value for the patients is remarkable. And as a provider, you can truly change the quality of your services when you provide those kind of services and go as a byproduct. You’re saving a lot of money.

Saul:
Yep, yep. Now, that’s definitely exciting. And now I mean, gosh, I mean, I get excited by that.

Saul:
And I think a lot of people that are in health care get excited by helping people. So that’s that’s pretty neat. And and so as you think about the the work that you guys do, and I’m sure you’re you’re thinking from a lot of different perspectives from technology to health care to leadership. Do you have any books that you’d recommend, David, for the listeners? We love to hear what our guests are reading because it’s always fascinating.

David:
Interesting question. So I used to read a lot when I had the time. Like I’m not getting. And and I think that’s so. At the second that you’ve just asked this question ahead, those list of 20 different books in signal processing that will probably bored the hell out of the singer. And I don’t want to go there, but I do want to recommend this book that I read when I was really younger, truly changed my perspective on things. Okay. There’s an amazing book that’s called Moment in pickin’ thinking. Yes. Speaking like the previous name of Beijing PEACOCK. Oh, yeah, yeah. Interesting. Uh-Huh. And Moment in the King was actually written by Chinese author and is English. He’s so amazing. He actually wrote it in English at the first version. It was only Darnton slated to Chinese. Yes. And Moment Entrekin is among the best books that I’ve ever read. Lee, thank you. Should truly check it out. That’s a book from the early 90s. Amazing book was only.

Saul:
No, this woman is picking and I’m interested. So what what is it like? What’s the what was the big thing you got out of it?

David:
I think that there’s a Carter there, woman named Mulan, that she’s so courage, so, so different, comparing to what I had in mind when I was a young person reading. I think I read this book when I was 13, probably. And this is brings the entire story of China, a revolution in the early 90s. But it’s not about China, is it? It’s about this character, which was extremely brave that going through things. And she had me no doubt.

David:
That’s pretty cool.

Saul:
That’s pretty cool. So is that were the Disney movie Moulin comes from a. No, completely. Not completely different. I have nothing to do with that. OK. OK. It’s a.. That’s the first thing here. Yeah. I should really check it out. I’m going fishing. I’m going to. This is great listeners.

Saul:
You know where to go for the books that our guests share for the for the amazing insights that David from Bina has shared with us. Go to outcomes rocket that health in the search bar when you get there, type in Bina. That’s be-I and H means intelligence means wisdom, future seeing.

Saul:
That’s pretty cool stuff. The end and you could check them out at B I N A H that I.

Saul:
David, before we conclude I’d love if you could just share with us a closing thought. And then the best place for the listeners could learn more about you or continue the conversation with you or somebody I heard from every now and then I’m trying to read reports to truly understand the market.

David:
In the end of 2019, there’s the World Health Organization reports. And when the first time I read it, I was pretty shocked. And it started like half of the world lacks access to essential health services. And when you hear death and said, what? It’s twenty twenty one. What? What’s been missing? You know, it’s almost twenty, twenty one. How come we’re in a place where half of the world lacks access to essential health services? And then you start to read the numbers. So there’s countries that have one physician for every 10000 and every fifty thousand and every twenty thousand people. And then it’s starting to make sense. In another fascinating fact is that over 100 million people worldwide go into extreme poverty because of health expenses. Yes. And when you read those kind of numbers and about the elderly population, we’re expecting in 30 years we’re going to have over 2.2 billion people above the age of 60 in the world and 700 million people above the age of 70. And with those kind of numbers, I see how this entire industry will have to adapt. And I think this kind of what I’m getting into, I’m getting into a deep understanding how the entire kind of a transformation and of the entire medical industry will have to go dramatically into the home of the patients, to the patient hands, to remote care, to remote patients monitoring, to telemedicine. So many parts of the different kind of services we give today in clinics and we give today some of it online. We’ll have to go tremendously to the other side. And I think be nice an enabler to this kind of vision, how you can truly have everything available remotely.

Saul:
Great, great closing thought there, and the numbers are staggering. There’s no way to deny it. I mean, you could deny if you want to sit under a rock and that’s.

David:
Yeah. Exactly. Please do read the recent report by World Health Organization. It’s even before covered. It was published in November last year. So there’s got nothing to do with it right now.

Saul:
Despite all this, it’s that it was the future that we’re heading toward. And hey, colvard, we’re. Maybe. Maybe it was a blessing. You know, that that you know, in a way I know it’s been it’s it’s giving us a lot of issues and a lot of people are suffering. And, you know, my heart and and prayers, you know, go out to everyone that’s that’s feeling the pain of Cauvin and as as providers feeling that that struggle. But, you know. Maybe it’s a godsend in a way. The silver linings that it’s gonna help us get to the future that we need to be to combat those numbers that that David shared with us. So, David, I appreciate you giving us your your insights here. What what would you say is the best place for the listeners to to reach out to you?

David:
So the easiest places to go to. www.binah.ai or just mail us at info@binah.ai

Saul:
Amazing. David your passion is contagious and the solution here is fascinating.

David:
So maybe let’s do a part two on this one. But for now, I really appreciate your time. Thank you very much for having me. That was great talking.

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