Developing intentional leadership
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Daniel@WildLeaders.org
Examining The Leader Within You with Daniel Hallak, Chief Commercial Officer at WiLD Leaders was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the latest audio-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors. Sonix is the best way to convert your audio to text in 2019.
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Saul Marquez:
Welcome back to the podcast. Today I’m honored to introduce Daniel Hallak, Dr. Daniel Hallock, Chief Commercial Officer at WiLD Leaders. I do want to preface Dr. PHD. He’s a PHD, not an M.D., but nevertheless very important as we’re gonna be discussing the topic of leadership in general and it’s something that’s super crucial to us and healthcare. So today’s gonna be a different type of podcast, not diving into healthcare, but diving into leadership and people development WiLD leaders, as is the company of Daniel, and they’re all about whole and intentional leader development. They’re developing a different kind of leader, a leader who’s both bold and sacrificial, who has the courage to go first and the compassion to pay attention to the needs of their followers. Who has the vision we want to follow and the humility to recognize that success isn’t achieved by one person alone. As the chief commercial officer, he drives strategic commercial initiatives and other operations, product development and marketing initiatives that support the development of whole leaders. His personal mission is to teach individuals, groups and organizations I don’t understand and develop their capabilities. So with that, I want to give you an introduction to Daniel and Daniel, I would love if you could just fill in the gaps of the introduction and tell us a little bit more about you and the company.
Daniel Hallak:
Yeah. Thank you, saw. So glad you clarified the doctor PHD versus MD. It’s a funny thing in the work we do. I happen to be a first responder to an emergency in a hotel not too long ago. And as I was helping treat this woman for shock, the hotel assistant manager who was with me, you know where we’re waiting for the paramedics to show up. And she said, you know, are you a doctor? And I said, down a bit, but not this type. She said, Oh, really? Would you have medical training? EMT. I said, laughing together. The voice got you got the basic
Saul Marquez:
That’s funny.
Daniel Hallak:
That just came back to me. So I’ve always thought was my worst nightmare that someone could ask you to come and help somebody for that. So my focus. But, you know, I do find a lot of similarities when I talk to my friends of the medical professions about how do you take care of patients as well as how do you help support leaders and people who are entering or in leader roles, both from a standpoint of you have to include pathology in the things that go wrong. And you also want to look for for health and potential and prevention making things go right. And so being able to balance both of those is something I appreciate a focus on. Only one can we in the wrong direction. But my work is, as you mentioned, focused on how do we help support leaders. And we make a distinction between developing leaders and building leadership because there’s so much good stuff on leadership out there. And my focus really is on the leader or leaders in the system. How do we equip that leader for the moment they’re going to have to face something that they weren’t trained for, that they were not expecting. As a physician who is running a group of other medical professionals and providers and has to make hard choices about firing or hiring or how did they build a culture and taking their expertise and bringing what we know from decades of research on the developmental journey of a leader along side that. And like you said, the whole of the intentional leader did all of this. We want to be able to focus on the whole person, both their strengths and their blind spots, and give people intentional structures to grows as leaders for their sake and the sake of others around them.
Saul Marquez:
Love it. No, Daniel, I love the message there. And so what would you say is the best way to develop leaders? Maybe you could share some of the framework and give the listeners a teaser of some of the work that you guys do at Wild Leaders.
Daniel Hallak:
Yeah. So let me tell you. We do it while leaders and how that ties in with the research, what we see for the most effective ways to develop leaders. I often think of leader development. I liken it to folks like nutrition and health, because when you see all the fads that are out there, people switch things all the time. The diets, what’s a little popular say? And yet when I talk to people who understand the science behind it, they’re able to draw out obviously localized things to an individual and you got to contextualize it to their story and what their system is. Yet there’s enough research that human bodies are not drastically different from each other. So all the fads change and the same thing happens in the leader development space. Only problem is people are probably less aware if there is research out there. So what we do is we do a lot of leader education, individual work and training. We have 10 assessment tools. There are suites that cover the leaders developmental journey from getting a sense of who they are, what’s their personalities, their character, strengths and challenges, developmental readiness to serve their purposes or the things they’re called to do. Looking at how they show up under pressure, there’s a lot of research around how people can regulate their emotions, which is different than emotional intelligence. But often people are really getting at looking at experiences and competencies. And I’ll double click down there in a minute to the networks of people they surround themselves with because we don’t develop in a vacuum. And then even looking at who are we then taking this and investigate in. So a big backbone of our work. And really what’s changed the landscape in the conversation leader development over the last couple of decades has been the focus on experiences. And one of the questions often gets asked is now are leaders born or made? And the answer when you go back to the literature and you even look at twin studies and different things that nature, it tends to be 50/50 at worst and 70, 30 at best. And so what that means is, depending on the person, we all bring stuff into the mix personality and and things are probably a little more a trait like. But there’s so much that can be developed, 50 to 70 percent of it can actually be developed and grown. One of the biggest things the research has shown is that experiences or the leader classroom for growing your capacity. The problem is this just because somebody goes through a challenging catalytic crucible experience does not mean they will extract the lessons from that moment and turn them into skills or competence competencies for the next level. And that’s important because when you step into a leader role, you’re going out in front. We have a simple definition that a leader goes first. And that means leadership is neutral to be good or bad with a person who’s making a courageous change somewhere or stepping out in some capacity. Their experience is different. The problem is some people will take those experiences and they’ll learn a ton and they’ll move to that next level and develop something that they need for that next space, whatever that is. If they didn’t have in the past, others might go through a crucible moment and just be burned out instead of developed. So there’s a lot of evidence around what type of experiences actually help someone go to that next level and what are the skills that they would develop from that. So a lot of our work is working with leaders to identify what are the experiences you need. What did you had? What were you going through right now? And what do you need next to bring your development alongside the goals of the institution or organization that you’re in and give them the support alongside those experiences. So the good news is all of us have a leadership classroom. And even better news is that there are some good evidence and practices to bring to bear that can help us squeeze the juice out of that.
Saul Marquez:
Yeah, some very insightful thoughts there. Daniel, and you know something for us to think about as as health care leaders, the experience is the classroom, probably the best classroom. However, people are different and how you respond to that classroom can make or break you. And definitely some interesting things in it as we approach the realm of health care with data and our intentions to make the best decisions to improve outcomes. I think it’s really important to consider some of the data and research behind leadership and go beyond the myths and and thoughts and pressure test them with data. So I love that that Daniel has spent so much time on this topic. And so what would you say is one of the common myths, Daniel, that people believe in meter development and how would you dispel it?
Daniel Hallak:
One of the most common myths I see in this is and I’ve done this myself, even five and guilty in the past is that leadership is a quick fix. Or you could just give somebody a personality test given their colors and call them good and that were baked. We had a real and I love those. I’ve been there, too. I mean, there’s two there are great starting points. It’s like an appetizer. But they often leave you saying, I’m hungry. What’s next? You know, we worked with a CEO recently who has a portfolio of companies under his care. So he’s a CEO to CEOs. And we did a two day session with him. I asked the way. Biggest takeaway was that he said I was reminded that these CEOs are still in process and even though they’re seasoned, they still need to be developed as leaders. It’s like a muscle if you don’t work at atrophies. So what that means is if you’re going to do anything for yourself individually or for a team or group or even a whole system of raising up leaders, it has to be done intentionally. There has to be structure that has to be woven into the fabric of your being and not just a one time appetizer. It’s like changing your rhythms for exercise or diet. So the biggest thing I move to now is that it’s great to have flashy moments that get things started. And we find that a kick off with a senior leaders fight is critical to making a process work. But how do we work a process in that? Because it’s part of the rhythms. So that development becomes less about a thing we’ve done or a thing we do or ought to check a box off and just something that is the air we breathe. It is part of what we do. We couldn’t imagine doing anything otherwise. We all have rituals and rhythms. So even with our assessment tools, people say, great, we do it a week. The answer is yes, but I’d rather walk through that with you over a year and get deep into who you are, who you are as a leader and your effectiveness and to have a continual process. I think of physicians or anyone in the health care profession. Right. You put so much time into training and how many of us would actually do that level of intense training and discipline on our own? I mean, how many of us would actually dive into literature? Do I mean some of things you can’t do that you would be allowed to do without supervision? But you think about it, there’s that intentional structure that a program of study gives you. And it surrounds you with people and it gives you a curriculum, if you will, or process. And some of it’s self directed, some of it’s curated for you, but it works because that structure is there. And so the same way I want to give people something that is in-depth and it goes over over time instead of just a great flash in the pan that leaves you hungry afterwards.
Saul Marquez:
Well said, well said. And definitely important to consider the impact over time. One of my favorite books is the Compound Effect have you ever read that?
Daniel Hallak:
I have not, but I love that title already because I can just imagine the universal truth that comes from our finances to our fitness.
Saul Marquez:
Yeah. And you know, the funny thing is that the authors, Darren Hardy and one of the things that I like about it is that it’s not about what’s sexy, it’s about what works and being consistent with it. And the application of principles and having an intentional structure is so key. And I never really stopped to think that I can use the same idea for leadership development and the development of leaders in my organization or myself as a leader.
Daniel Hallak:
Absolutely. Yeah. I love it.
Saul Marquez:
I think it’s a great, great topic. So what book would you recommend to the listeners?
Daniel Hallak:
You know, on this topic of experiences is a great book by a gentleman named Morgan McCall. And it’s called High Flyers. He’s one of the pioneers in this space of looking at how do we harness the power of experiences to develop leaders. He’s out of us. See, we’ve done a lot of research based on what he kicked off a number of other places. How? But it’s a great book that dispels some of the myths we just talked about, but also give the process for, OK, Daniel thinks I’ve got this leadership lab and I understand that the structures where I do what I do with how do I capture those for myself and be intentional or help others. You know, if an organization says, oh, we’re trying to grow to this next level and here’s our big challenge. Well, turns out there are some key experiences that you’re going to be creating for leaders and some specific competencies you can map them to and really extract an incredible learning experience and develop leaders in the process. So give them just really easy ways to do that. So High Flyers by Morgan McCall it a great read on this topic. Just enough smart, just enough accessible.
Saul Marquez:
Love it. This is good. This is good stuff, Daniel. So, folks, for that book, as well as oa full transcript of today’s Talk with Daniel, go to outcomesrocket.health. And in the search bar type and leadership type in it. Daniel Hallak. You’ll definitely be able to pull all the resources and things that we’ve discussed today. Daniel, how can people reach out to you and follow you if they want to learn more?
Daniel Hallak:
Yeah, so a couple of things. Any social media channel look for Wild leaders, wild like it sounds. Again, it stands for a whole intentional leader development. But while leaders is one of our common places, they find us looking for Daniel Hallak on LinkedIn or Facebook. And folks can also email me at Daniel@WildLeaders.org. And I was delighted to connect and help people scale their leader capacity.
Saul Marquez:
Outstanding. Danielle, now this has been really great opportunity to to engage you on a topic that you’re an expert on near and dear to you and one that you’ve been able to advise many to success. So just want to thank you again and listeners, I want to just give you a call to action that check out the work that Dr. Daniel Hallak has done in this space and how it could impact you. So, again, just want to say thanks again for spending time with us.
Daniel Hallak:
Thank you, Saul. Absolute delight. Keep up the great work you do with folks in the field.
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