Transforming Prescription Decision Support
Episode 430

Carm Huntress, CEO at RxRevu, Inc.

Transforming Prescription Decision Support

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Transforming Prescription Decision Support

Episode 430

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Transforming Perscription Decision Support with Carm Huntress, CEO at RxRevu, Inc. transcript powered by Sonix—the best audio to text transcription service

Transforming Perscription Decision Support with Carm Huntress, CEO at RxRevu, Inc. was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the latest audio-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors. Sonix is the best way to convert your audio to text in 2019.

Welcome to the Outcomes Rocket podcast, where we inspire collaborative thinking. Improved outcomes and business success with today’s most successful and inspiring health care leaders and influencers. And now your host, Saul Marquez.

Saul Marquez:
Welcome back to the podcast. Today I have the outstanding Carm Huntress. He’s the CEO at RxRevu. Carm is an entrepreneur and strategic leader with over 20 years of experience in startups focused around consumer and enterprise technology. His first web development and hosting company he started while in high school was eventually acquired in 2001 after finishing his degree in electrical engineering at Northeastern University in 2004, he went to work for a PlumVoice, an IVR and voice technology startup where he ran their network operations. He later was asked to run product development at My Perfect Gig Northbridge and Commonwealth Venture Startup. After two years as their CTO of Reef Partners, where he ran the technology for a number of portfolio companies, he became CTO at Audiogon.com, the largest high end audio site in the world. He managed the transition of the core technology platform and team for growth. In 2013, he moved to Denver, where he founded our RxRevu, which will be the focus of our interview today. As many of you have seen, the headlines of newspapers and media articles are have been centered around PBMs, pharmacy benefit managers and and some of the practices that are not the best. And so what Carm is doing in his current role is bringing a fix to that big problem. So we’re going to review some of his thoughts and experience in the business. And with that, I want to I want to give you a warm welcome, Carm. Thanks for joining us.

Carm Huntress:
Absolutely. Thanks for having me today.

Saul Marquez:
So Carm, did I leave anything out of the intro? Obviously, you’ve done a lot of really cool things early on that maybe you want to educate the listeners on about you.

Carm Huntress:
Yeah. I mean, I think the thing that’s interesting about me is I’m a don health care guy in health care. And, you know, my career is I’ve really touched a lot of bespoke and unique technology products and sold the raw really a lot of tough engineering problems. And I think those things certainly really well, as the CEO now with a technology background, to me, I think everybody kind of laments about how far behind technology is in healthcare. And so I work through a lot of sort of old antiquated systems. And I think all that technology scale and product background really serves me well here to CEO. This is by far not an easy job as we try to advance healthcare technology to the two at least, you know, 2010, hopefully 2019 here compared to a lot of the other areas in our life, like our phones that are pretty advanced at this point.

Saul Marquez:
Now, that’s a good call out Carm and certainly a tech background helps a lot. Implementation is key, right.. And we often say implementation is innovation and health. Just got to figure out how to make it work.

Carm Huntress:
Yeah. I mean, it’s it’s interesting because it’s one thing to kind of I think we see with a lot of technology and discussions about A.I. and all this is that they can work in really small pockets that sort of, you know, academia or other areas. It’s very hard to scale and implement technologies in healthcare. Very few companies have done it. I mean, if you look at the capital deployed and sort of what companies you can say are at sort of massive millions or tens of millions of users scale, it doesn’t really exist in health care yet. It’s starting to happen, but it’s still pretty early on in terms of seeing technologies implemented well and scaled to pretty large numbers of users.

Saul Marquez:
Yeah. Carm. What is it that got you in the health care sector after all these years and success that you had outside of it?

Carm Huntress:
Yeah. So it’s an interesting founder story. My wife is a physician and she and I had actually done quite a bit of traveling before moving to Denver. We took about six months off. She had just finished her fellowship. And, you know, we were settling here in Denver. And I really wanted to do. You know, I had worked. If you look at the of my career, I worked on a lot of rich really technologies, but not really things that moved the dial in terms of people’s lives. I was in my early thirties and really assessing my career and what success meant to me. And I think I really just wanted to be useful and really useful and helpful to people and have that mission driven sense. And through kind of my wife ended up meeting our chief medical officer, Dr. Kevin O’BRIEN, who’s a great pulmonologist. He’s been one for almost 30 years. And he and I met over breakfast and he said, hey, I’ve got this idea I want to show you. And he actually was very frustrated. And as a pulmonologist, you prescribe a lot of variable different types of drugs that can be very expensive inhalers and other things like that and not covered and covered. And his frustration was pretty high around this. And he also knew that doctors had a hard time keeping up with the efficacy of drugs and how well they worked. And so he did about five years of research by the time I met him and actually had put together a book. And the book was hundreds of pages long. And every page or a few pages was a condition. And then every drug that could treat that condition ranked by clinical efficacy and cost. And it was kind of an amazing piece of work. We still have it, actually. I think it’s kind of more, you know, I have a. Locked away in a cabinet here in the office because it’s such a great piece of work and being a doctor, he was like, I’m going to publish this, you know. And so I saw this and I and, you know, the two things that stood out to me is, one, the number of drugs just for a single condition that could treat that condition that are relatively the same. And then the variability in cost is sort of in a normal market. If you have something that works exactly the same as something else, the costs are usually relatively the same. And that’s absolutely not true with pharmaceuticals Right.. You can see drugs that are just 4 dollars Right.. Although the same drug or just in a different name or made by a different manufacturer can be hundreds or thousands of dollars. And so the cost is transferred through disparity and the magnitude of the problem, right.. This is a 400 billion dollar market was really what caught my eye. And then really the opportunity that like health providers and consumers in such a fundamental way and back to them. This is six years ago, right? So just then the sort of pressure of consumer driven health care and you know, you’re starting to hear the stories of people going bankrupt and not being able to afford their medications and the challenges around that. And it just kind of lift me up. I was like, my God, someone if I’m not going to solve this problem, someone’s going to have to be solved. If we think about value based care and consumer driven care, whether, you know, consumers are covering the costs, you know, people are going to want and must have a transparent system. And as doctors and providers think about giving value based care, how can they do it if they don’t know the cost of what they’re doing? Right. That does doesn’t make sense. It’s an impossibility. So I knew there was something there. I had no idea what this thing would become and what a big deal. Cost transparency would be. It’s taken six years. So it’s much longer timeline than I thought. But it’s a much bigger and more interesting problem than what I knew that day when I started the company.

Saul Marquez:
That’s a very interesting background, Carm, and I appreciate you walking us through that. Let’s take some time to have a conversation with the listeners more about you and your company, our RxRevu. Let’s bring some awareness to them and get some education around, specifically a topic that you mentioned to me before we started the podcast, Real Time Benefit Check. So I’d love if you could just expand on those to your company, what you guys do and real time benefit check.

Carm Huntress:
Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, it’s been an interesting ride from a company perspective. We actually dabbled a bit in the consumer space even when we started trying to bring costs, transparency with with sort of more clinical data than good our around helping patients not only save money but be clinically on what’s appropriate and. Oh, no. Those first two years where we actually came to realize and it’s a interesting consumer experience if you think about how you get a drug and actually get it prescribed to you. And so the aha moment for us as a company was realizing the prescriber is really the decision maker. Your doctor is and there buying quote unquote, buying the drug on your behalf. Right. And so it’s a very interesting sort of consumer experience in that you have this other person making this decision and then you go to the pharmacy. And ultimately what we concluded was it’s pointless to sort of try to solve it from a consumer perspective. We really wanted to get to the origin of the decision. Right., which is at the point of care. Right. And that really led us to we had that was kind of our major pivot as a company going from sort of consumer to provider to point of care, much harder challenge Right.. You’ve got to H.R. integrations. You got large health systems that move slowly that don’t have a lot of money. So we made that choice and had some early success sort of integrating into EHRs and showing that we could get providers to change behavior. And then everybody talks. You know that luck is the intersection of opportunity and preparation. And I think that’s a really true story with us as a company. You know, we were working hard at the point of care. We had a great relationship with Universal Colorado health system, was still a major customer and investor in our company. And what we saw come on to the market with is this new standard called real time benefit check. And some of the PBMs had started to do pilots. And essentially what this is, is real time individual patient cost at the point of care. So it’s a pretty exciting new real time data source that the insurance companies and PBMs are now offering. And their main goal is to get it to the point of care so the provider can have that when they’re making the decision. So they actually know down to the dollar and cent what the patient is going to pay. And the challenge for providers historically is that what they’ve been giving, given to date is something called formulary and benefit data. And so if you’re familiar with kind of your drug benefit, that’s usually a tier and a copay where you say, oh, this is a Tier 2 drug and the copay many dollars or something. Right. that data, believe it or not, it’s 2019. That data is still shared like a flat file that’s sent around to from PBMs Typically through show scripts to the point of care and then it’s uploaded in the H.R. is a flat file. So you can imagine. Moving a flat file around and that type of sort of non-specific patient information sort of group and plan level information is very inefficient and inaccurate. Right. It’s 2019. What we do today is Right.. We do real time connections to the data we want and then we bring in the applications we need like the H.R. And so real time benefit can’t be started to become about three years, an emergent standard. And most of the major payers and PBMs came to us and said, hey, this is really interesting what you’re doing at the point of care. You’re bringing sort of both. We’re doing a lot of work in clinical decision support. So helping the doctor know clinically, hey, this is the appropriate drug. And then with real time benefit, it was kind of a great marriage,right. of clinical data plus cost transparency and bringing those two two ideas together at the point of care. And so that’s really what led us into. We have three now, three or four major relationships with insurance companies to run these transactions on behalf of these their members and then bring that data to the point of care on behalf of providers. So when they make that prescription decision, right in their EHR they actually see that costs of that drug. They can also see therapeutic alternatives that are lower costs. They could see if the drug has a prior author or not, as well as different fulfillment channels. Like is it better for the patient to go to a different pharmacy or potentially get the drug via a mail order? So it’s a pretty powerful tool in terms of really helping providers make more informed prescription decisions.

Saul Marquez:
Well, it’s really powerful. And this emerging standard of real time benefits could really hone in on cost reduction and outcomes improvement in a powerful way. So kudos to you and your team, Carm, for getting this thing going. What would you say? A specific example of how you guys have improved outcomes or improved business with your technology?

Carm Huntress:
Yeah. There’s so many great examples. You know, I spend time. I love going out into the clinics and actually meeting with the doctors. And, you know, I’ll give you one or two really quick examples. One is just a simple tablet to capsule switch. So just depending on a patient’s benefit I was in front of the doctor was two hundred dollars for them to be on the capsule of the drug. What came back was, hey, if you switch them to the tablet, it’s 50 dollars. The Right. Right. in there. You know, it’s the same drug. It’s just a you know, a tablet versus the capsule. There’s really no different. That’s one hundred and fifty dollars of saving. Now, if that’s a chronic drug, you multiply that by 12 months. That’s a huge amount of financial savings to the patient at a much more affordable cost, you know, 50 dollars a month. That’s a lot of sense. The other one, I think that’s really impactful. That really shows how just a tiny bit of data at the point of care can reduce a huge amount of administrative burden. I was with an internist that I just absolutely love, and I see her occasionally and say, oh, you know, how’s it going? She said, no, it’s really neat. The other day I use it was inside Epic, which is the HRT that U.S. health uses here in Colorado. And she used our service to look up a newly diagnosed diabetic and she was prescribing insulin to them. And what she was going to prescribe was not covered by the insurance company. And it was three hundred dollars. The alternative that came back was free. Well, you know, what would have happened if that to the end of this story is that if that had not happened, the drug would have gotten prescribed to the pharmacy. The patient would have shown it would have said, hey, it’s not covered, it’s three hundred dollars. I can call back your doctor. Right. And so they would typically call the doctor back. And then one of their staff calls the insurance company Right. and sits on hold for however long and then finds out that there is this alternative and then goes back to the doctor. They re prescribe, send it to the pharmacy and then the patient picks it up. And so if you think about just how small those pieces of data we provided were, they weren’t anything special. They were just a few simple pieces of data that dramatically changed the whole experience for everybody. Right. the provider, the patient, the pharmacist, the provider’s assistants. You know, their their clinical staff, it just made a huge difference. And that’s the type of inefficiencies, you know, we’re so excited to solve for providers. And obviously, the massive cost reduction we could see in the industry. Just to give you a global stat Right., there’s this is a three depending on how you look at rebates and things, three out of three, four hundred billion dollar industry, about one hundred and fifty billion is waste today where either patients are on drugs that they don’t need to be or there’s lower cost options available to them. And so this is just one of those areas where this market could be half as big as it is. If providers were really informed at the point of here as well as as patients around the cost and best option based on their their insurance plan.

Saul Marquez:
Some great stories there, Carm, and without a doubt, I mean, that last example you offered, both offered access to care. Right.. Maybe somebody would not have been able to get that. They’re not going to take an extra day off work. Their need to go to work, they’ve got to pay for stuff and before, you know, it adherence goes down or they’re not adherent to what the doctor wanted. So. Big, big, big benefits being offered here through the value you guys are doing at RxRevu. Tell me about something that hasn’t work. And what did you learn from it?

Carm Huntress:
Oh, wow. So I think probably one of our biggest failures as a company and it was a great learning for everybody on the team was we was working with another health system here in Colorado and they wanted to scale up our original product, which is we call it Swift, our navigator. And it’s actually an application that runs in EHR that gives both clinical guidance and cost transparency. So it’s a more sophisticated tool and they really wanted to scale it up to be able to order literally any drug and evaluate any drug possible. And one of those things about health care is that when we went to scale it up, the challenges around ordering and and passing and what prescription order back into the EHR became essentially insurmountable. The complexity, I want to get too into it, but it just didn’t work. And so we tried and tried and tried. And we got right up against launch day. We tried to launch with the providers. Use that. It just didn’t work. It was an absolute failed state for the product and it was incredibly hard. We had to go to our insurance partner and talk to them and sort of it was a tough navigation for us as a company. The good news is we took that lesson and sort of sat back and said, how do we really want to operate as a company? We came to this conclusion that building, this really sophisticated application is something we want to keep doing and keep improving for the future. But really, the real value is in our data. And so we really pivoted to offer our swifter sort of response with our direct, which is our API. It’s just a data product which brings all this great cost transparency information to the point of care. But any EHR or any system can just digest that that data and provide it to providers at the point of care. So whether in their prescribing or their clinical staff or even a pharmacist, Right. can get access to this data and then we leave it up to EHRs or other vendors we’re working with to figure out the best way to get it in front of their users, whether those are providers or otherwise. So we’ve had to have some really tough learnings. And I think it gets back to the fundamentals of health care is that there’s so much great technology out there. But we’ve got to start to move into this more interoperable, more flexible infrastructure from the health care I.T. perspective. So these great technologies are all building and all this wonderful data we’re producing can actually be used and be actionable for providers or even consumers to really improve healthcare. And I think that’s one of the hardest moments were in health and from a healthcare standpoint, both both for us as a company, but even nationally, it’s a big issue around interoperability and what we’re trying to do there to open up the data floodgates so everybody has easier access to this information.

Saul Marquez:
Yeah, that’s really interesting. And so far, I understand you correctly then Carm, you’ve made the decision. The companies made a decision to just focus on the data and let the vendors and teams put together their solutions that pull this this very valuable data set to help make decisions.

Carm Huntress:
Yeah. And what’s interesting that’s happened with us is that we’ve been able to establish relationships with organizations like EPIC and or one of a very small set of vendors that’s offering real time benefit check information at the point of care directly in EPIC, their epic 2018 native workflow. So it’s part of the prescribing workflow now and we’re the data storage behind that. So we’re one of four vendors total in the US that have access in a relationship that offer that epic clients. And as you know, EPIC covers about half U.S. health systems. Now in the US. So we’re pretty unique in that way that we have that relationship and can offer that. And I think we just passed our 10th epic client. So we have a pretty large footprint in terms of working with large academic or medical centers that use the epic charge system in that we can provide our real time benefit check data to the point of care.

Saul Marquez:
Well, that’s fascinating. Carm, congratulations on being able to get into that small subset of approved vendors with an epic kudos to you and your team. What would you say is the most exciting project you’re working on today?

Carm Huntress:
Well, it’s more about really the future and where we’re going to head as a company. You know, as I said and and sort of talked a little bit about our navigator product. And I think our view is that prescribing and if you just kind of back up and look at it, it’s too complex for a provider to really do effectively. I think both keeping up with the clinical data and clinical efficacy of drugs is extremely hard for most providers. And there’s so many different options there. There’s specialty drugs now, different delivery mechanisms and very and also precision based medicine. So we’re now getting to genetics and things like that on an individual patient basis. And so that’s one one big bucket of really hard things for providers to kind of stay on top of them. And the cost that you Right. consumer driven health care is led to a lot of cost variability from patient to patient drug variability. No generics can range now to. Five hundred dollars within the same class, right.. That’s pretty, pretty big dollars. Now, we’re not talking about small dollars. And so if you think about that. You know, our view of the future and where we want to go is that a computer is going to be way better at prescribing than a provider, right. The providers. Really good at diagnosing the problem. All right. I’ve looked at all the variables. Here is really the diagnosis I have now. What would be the best treatment? If you think about solving a very highly problem of this scale with all these different variables. That’s where a computer can really step in and solve these problems. And so that’s really where our company is going. We have you know, we started a lot of our work in clinical decision support and guiding providers to the right drug. And then we now have this really great relationships to bring cost transparency together. And that really is going to lead, in my mind, to systematized prescribing. And so our future is where the provider just says, hey, you have hypertension, you have type 2 diabetes in our computer or they are true to engineer Swift or X, which is the product. Does all the calculus figures out clinically what’s going on for their patient based on their EHR records? And then from a cost perspective, figures out what they what are the three or four best drugs here based on the patient’s plan and then presents that to the doctor. What an easier and more effective way to prescribe drugs, right.. Take all the hard thinking out of it, reduce the clicks to the provider and really help them make an informed decision. Now getting to that future is highly complex. Right.. This is very sophisticated stuff that might lead us as a company into machine learning and even A.I. based thinking where we’ll start to say, hey, patients like you have really done well on this drug and here’s your your best option. And then I think about that tool in that that product, which is the beginning of what directs Navigator in that the administrative people parts go away. And so our vision is that we go to some of our insurance partners and say, hey, we’ve proven that providers systematized their prescribing when they use our tool. It’s more clinically effective and more cost effective. Why are you going to put any administrative burdens on? Why have them do prior or why put all these restrictions on them? If they use the tool, don’t make them do that. And so then all this administrative headache and insurance overhead from and both pain to the patient and filling out prior shots and getting them approved and then having to go the pharmacy days or weeks later to finally get their drug will just go away. And that’s really the future we want to go into. And that is leaning much more into value. So these are the beginning. We have these early projects and again, they’re not at any scale, but they’re really compelling and that we feel and kind of know inherently that’s going to be the future prescribing. And I hope five years from now where you and I are having a conversation and we say to each other, hey, can you believe that we let doctors prescribe kind of like the last drug maker to remember to spell. And that was by now, you know, like, how did we do that? That was a really bad thing. It’s much more obvious to just say, hey, we’ve got a really smart agent helping a provider make the best decision. So that’s the project I’m kind of in future vision that I have for the company that I’m most excited about where we’re headed. And I think a lot of our partners and clients are as well.

Saul Marquez:
Well, I think it’s it’s fascinating and impactful work, Carm, and and just the image that came to my mind was a passage that I read about Henry Ford and he was not sure if you’ve heard of this or not, but he was brought into court and accused of of not knowing much. And they started asking him all sorts of random questions. And in the middle of the battery of questions, he says, you know, I really don’t see the value or importance of knowing all of this when I could hit an electric push button and have somebody give me the answers. And I think the same I think about that is a brilliant response in the courtroom by Henry Ford. And I think when you have somebody as talented as as Mr. Ford or the providers that you’re working so hard to enable, gosh, I mean, and let’s enable them to practice at the top of their license, as people like to say, let’s enable them to do what’s most impactful, which is how patients and so it’s powerful work that you’re doing. And I want to give you and your team huge kudos for that.

Carm Huntress:
Yeah, well, thank you. You know, it’s the future. One of my board members has this phrase called informed autonomy.

Saul Marquez:
Where does it come.

Carm Huntress:
Informed autonomy.

Saul Marquez:
OK.

Carm Huntress:
That’s the future that we’re going to have with providers where.

Saul Marquez:
I like that.

Carm Huntress:
Have this. What we don’t want to do is walk things down and just say, you shout Right.. That’s not going to work either, because they’re really smart people. They’re incredibly well educated, obviously. So we want to give them the sort of informed autonomy future. And I think I look at just the many parts of the rest of our lives. We have computers guiding us through every decision of our lives. Right. And I think providers are going to be the same where we help them sort of whittle down the set of options to really what the best choices. And we do it in a really efficient thing. I think one of the things maybe to actually the things that we’ve discovered with providers is the key in a lot of providers. Still, they’re stuck in their ways. They won’t change. Well, we found is if you lower their cognitive load and you reduce the number of clicks it takes them to get to the decision or make the decision they adopt and adopted pretty significant ways. We showed an early study that we improved antibiotic prescribing by a net of about 24 percent just by giving them some guidance to the right antibiotic for a particular infection or whatever the condition may be for the patient. And that was not a lot of work in terms of the thinking behind that. But we were just making it easier on them. And I think the burden. You know, I think this is the whole thing. If you look at physician burnout, the whole problem behind it is the fact that we’ve made technology so efficient, inefficient. Four thousand clicks per shift for an EDI doc doesn’t compute Right.. That’s not an efficient way to do work in that. And that’s led to a lot of burnout and frustration around technology. And so we’ve kind of artificially put this thought in our mind that providers don’t change and they don’t want to change the behavior. Well, it really comes down to the fact that the technology we give them is really inefficient, very frustrating use. And it’s. And so they don’t have that right information at the point of care to really make that informed decision and have that and still feel autonomy Right. around those decisions. And so that’s the future I want to get to. And I could agree more on that than ever before. It’s like we really should just push a button and have the computer help us make the best, best choice because it’s gonna do it way better. And, you know, it doesn’t get tired or particularly make errors that often as long as you have the right information and that’s the future. I really hope we can help create here at all a tribute.

Saul Marquez:
Man, that’s awesome. I love what you guys are doing. Oh, yeah, absolutely, Carm. And so here is the lightning round. I’ve got a couple of questions for you, followed by a book that you recommend to listeners. You ready?

Carm Huntress:
Sure.

Saul Marquez:
All right. What’s the best way to improve health care outcomes?

Carm Huntress:
I think health providers at the point of care make better decisions with technology.

Saul Marquez:
What’s the biggest mistake or a pitfall to avoid?

Carm Huntress:
Don’t hire bad team members. Get the best team around you. You can get the smartest people that are incredibly hard working. And don’t make that mistake of that.

Saul Marquez:
How do you stay relevant as an organization despite constant change?

Carm Huntress:
I think I read a network. And listen, I think you really got to stay on top of policy. What’s happening? You really have to network with thought leaders and understand where the industry is going. And then you really have to listen to the space between the words really on a lot of cases and to understand what people are really thinking and the you know, whether it’s policy or otherwise, where they’re going.

Saul Marquez:
What’s one area of focus that drives everything at our RxRevu?

Carm Huntress:
It’s definitely real time benefit check. It’s a really great opportunity and a unique one and one that won’t last forever for us to get to the point of your health providers. And then our hope is do a lot more for them.

Saul Marquez:
I love that. And these next two are a little more on a personal note for the listeners to get to know you. What is your number one health habit?

Carm Huntress:
Hot yoga. I’ve been doing it for 20 years.

Saul Marquez:
Nice. Is that right? 20 years.

Carm Huntress:
Yeah.

Saul Marquez:
Amazing. Good for you. I did it once. And that was after. It was after a triathlon. My first triathlon ever. And a really healthy man. And I felt so good afterwards. A little sore, but yeah, it was great.

Carm Huntress:
The physical and mental practice. So it’s a great thing as a CEO to help keep me grounded and focused. And that’s clear minded as I can every day.

Saul Marquez:
Love it, man. How about your number one success had it?

Carm Huntress:
I’d probably say reading. You know, I’m trying to do 50 books this year.

Saul Marquez:
Good for you.

Carm Huntress:
And I think that’s probably the thing that really propels me, because I take a lot of that knowledge and information and put it into practice. And I think that’s just an important role. As a CEO, you have to be constantly growing and evolving and listening. And I think reading is a great way to do that because ultimately most of what we’ve been done has been done before by somebody else. And I use that quite a bit.

Saul Marquez:
So what would your book recommendation be to the listeners?

Carm Huntress:
Gosh, you know, I just. It’s probably more relevant than to like my favorite books of all time. But I think a Powerful by Patty McCord and the Netflix story is a wonderful read and teaches you a lot about how to grow and scale early stage startups. And I think as a lot of relevancy to health care, whether whether it’s not in health care, but it’s a great read.

Saul Marquez:
So it’s called powerful?

Carm Huntress:
Yeah.

Saul Marquez:
OK, cool. Definitely one that we’ll have to pick up. And there’s also a Netflix series on it?

Carm Huntress:
No, it’s written by the head of Talent or H.R. or Patty McCord that ran ran a chart of talent at Netflix. So it’s.

Saul Marquez:
Okay, love it. And very cool.

Carm Huntress:
That she was there for about a dozen years. And the story of her scaling the teams and how they built the culture. And I’m sure some of your listeners will be familiar with the Netflix culture depth , which has been downloaded by tens of millions of times. And so a lot of that information is in that. And she goes into much more depth around sort of culture and building cultures and teams and the challenges they face because they scale that at a rate at one point they were consuming a third of the entire Internet’s bandwidth, which is, right.. It’s just. That’s how big they were. So continue to be a dominant player in that space.

Saul Marquez:
That’s an interesting recommendation and definitely taking that down. And for all you leaders out there wanting to continue building a strong culture and team, this is one you’re going to want to pick up to get to outcomesrocket.health in the search bar, type in our RxRevu and it’s actually R X R E V U. And once you plug that into the search bar, you’ll be able to see the entire show notes, page a full transcript and links to all the things that we’ve discussed, including that book, including all the products that RxRevu offers. So. Carm, leave us with the closing thought and the best place where the listeners could continue the conversation with you.

Carm Huntress:
Well, I’m Carl Huntress on Twitter, and I thank you for all the listeners out there. And, you know, my thing is, I think it’s a wonderful time to be in health care and we need more talented thought leaders and technology leaders and more more great people in health care, in my opinion. There are a lot of wonderful people in this industry, but we’re in such a amazing inflection point right now in health care, both from a policy perspective, but from especially from a technology perspective. When you think about interoperability and openness and data and where we could go as a society to not only hopefully make health care a lot less expensive and less than 20 percent of the GDP, but but really the opportunity to completely change the way care is given and get into much more preventative models and value based models. And I think technology will be the underpinning of that. So I really encourage everyone to sort of think hard about your career and what you want to do and how you want to contribute to society. And being in health care right now is pretty amazing. And so a maybe want to more than happy to some of your listeners and reach out to me. We’re always hiring. But if not, you know, it’s a wonderful place to be. There’s incredible people in it. That’s a great opportunity right now. And so that’s that’s kind of my closing thought for people out there, because I’ve so enjoyed leaving other industries on care ones and spending like my career here.

Saul Marquez:
Well, it’s definitely clear that you’re passionate about this. And and folks just like the what you’ll type in the search by, go to outcomesrocket.health/RxRevu, rxrevu.com. And that’s why you’re going to find all the information that Carm and his team have been up to. And so calm. Keep fighting the good fight. You’re making some huge headway here for physicians and patients and in the health system overall. Really, really appreciate you spending time with us today.

Carm Huntress:
Thanks so much. Loved the discussion and appreciate taking the time.

Thanks for listening to the Outcomes Rocket podcast. Be sure to visit us on the web at www.outcomesrocket.com for the show notes, resources, inspiration and so much more.

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