Innovative Thoughts in Healthcare Consumerism
Episode 437

Ken Robbins, CEO at Response Mine Health

Innovative Thoughts in Healthcare Consumerism

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Innovative Thoughts in Healthcare Consumerism

Episode 437

Recommended Book:

The Blue Zones

Best Way to Contact Ken:

ken.robbins@responsemine.com

Company Website:

Response Mine

Innovative Thoughts in Healthcare Consumerism with Ken Robbins, CEO at Response Mine Health transcript powered by Sonix—the best audio to text transcription service

Innovative Thoughts in Healthcare Consumerism with Ken Robbins, CEO at Response Mine Health was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the latest audio-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors. Sonix is the best way to convert your audio to text in 2019.

Saul Marquez:
Hey, everybody Saul Marquez here with the Outcomes Rocket. Are you going to HLTH? It’s the largest and most important conference for health innovation. HLTH pronounced health, is one of a kind of ecosystem event for the health industry and they’re on a mission to bring together 5,000 plus senior leaders to solve the most pressing problems facing healthcare today and actualize the most promising opportunities to improve health. They bring together senior leaders from across payers, providers, employers, investors, fast growing startups, pharma, policymakers, and innovation centers to ask one question. How do we create the future of health? I’ll be there. And I hope to see you there, too. If you use outcomesrocketpodcast150 as the promo code, that’s outcomesrocketpodcast150, you’ll get a hundred and fifty dollars off your ticket. Looking forward to seeing you there. Go to hlth.com to sign up. That’s hlth.com. Use that promo code outcomesrocketpodcast150. And I am excited to see you there. I’ll even have a booth recording some podcast live at the event. The MGM in Las Vegas. So, so excited to see you there. Don’t be afraid to say hi and we’re gonna learn a lot there. So hlth.com.

Saul Marquez:
Welcome back to the outcomes rockets. Saul Marquez has here again. Thank you for tuning in. Today, I have the privilege of hosting Ken Robbins. He’s the CEO and founder of Response Mine Health, a marketing agency that helps healthcare and wellness companies like yours grow their new customers and patients. Since 2001, R.M.I has served healthcare clients including Liberty Medical, Hoveround, back pain centers of America, and Med Express, among others, to do the best for their clients. With over 20 years of consumer marketing experience, Ken is a thought leader in this space. And today we’re gonna be diving into the idea of healthcare consumerism. What that means to you? We’re going to be diving deep. And fascinatingly enough, Ken has also been a featured contributor to the bestselling book on social media called Socialnomics. So it’s gonna be a really great talk today and really thrilled to have Ken join us on the podcast. Ken, welcome.

Ken Robbins:
Thank you. Saul, appreciate it. Glad to be here.

Saul Marquez:
So, Ken, did I leave anything out in the intro that you want to share with the listeners about you?

Ken Robbins:
Let’s see. I think that although we have a focus on healthcare and medical marketing and patient acquisition and direct to consumer patient marketing, we also have a lot of experience in the world of retail marketing. We work at Home Depot, Staples, Rooms To Go, large multi-channel retailers and e-commerce players. And this is, I think, material because some of what we’ll talk today will expose how medical providers can benefit from some of the tricks and strategies that retailers use to get to consumers.

Saul Marquez:
I think that’s really insightful, Ken and a worthy point of making is that there is this other side of your business that does take care of retail marketers. You’ve been applying, you know, this cross-pollination of strategies and what worked for retail successfully for a lot of your clients on the healthcare side. We’ll dive into that. But I want to know, firstly, what got you into healthcare?

Ken Robbins:
Well, ever since we open our doors in 2001, we’ve had medical marketing clients and they’ve been direct to consumer clients like Hoveround and Liberty Medical, which Liberty Medical worked in a world of diabetic testing supplies and those kind of things shipped directly to consumers. So we’ve always been in it. But I had a health transformation. In fact, my whole family… as my wife and I’ve had health transformations, was hit by a drunk driver in 2006 that led to a big sedentary lifestyle and a lot of weight gain at one point I was 329 pounds.

Saul Marquez:
Wow.

Ken Robbins:
In 2012, two things happened. My wife got breast cancer and she is incredibly healthy today. And she did it with a combination of medical procedures, surgeries and but she declined even as a stage four breast cancer patient. She declined all chemo and radiation and she took on a much different path for the post-surgical treatment. And very alternative, drinking carrot juice, 50 pounds of carrot juice every month and taking supplements. And, you know, she really quarterbacked her own care and now she is in remission. And it’s been stunning. And my health transformation was and it started in 2012. Between 2012 and 2014, I lost 60 pounds. And over a four year period, I lost one hundred twenty nine pounds. And I did it by using apps on my phone, counting calories, measuring foods. I didn’t really do it through exercise. It was more food management and nutrition, those two things. And I was thinking about what’s the purpose of our company? We’ve gotten bigger. We’ve got more than 10 million in revenues and, you know, a good legacy. We worked all these great clients. What’s the purpose of what we do? And it was deciding that as I hit 50 years old, I wanted to do something more meaningful. We took a sort of a hard 30 degree turn to port into healthcare and into wellness and fitness. So healthcare, wellness and fitness is the is the primary focus of all new client activity now.

Saul Marquez:
Wow. You know what? That’s a great story. I really appreciate you sharing that Ken, you know, just hearing about the health transformations that you, your wife, your family have made and how that’s translated into your business. You know, I often feel like businesses are an extension of ourselves and what we could do to provide value to the folks listening today. What’s that hot topic that needs to be on health leaders agenda Ken and how are you and your organization making a difference?

Ken Robbins:
Well, I would say, you know, healthcare, it seems to always be in the state of chaos, whether it’s regulations and compliance and new bodies of law or it’s new machines and treatments. You know, that’s all on the production side of what they do. But over the last decade, with the advent and, you know, democratization of the Internet, there’s another transformation that’s take place. And it’s really a health consumerism revolution. And I use the word revolution rather than the word disruption. We think in terms of business as this is disrupting, but disruption, the definition is really a temporary interruption in service. A revolution is a wholesale change in the way things are done, a wholesale change in society. And when that revolution occurs, that populace is never going back to the old way of doing things. They’re only going with the new way of doing things. And so with the advent of the Internet and this has led to new levels of information and new levels of service for consumers and the laggard in all industries, technologies change. Entertainment has changed. E-commerce has changed. The laggard has been healthcare. The service level, it does not meet the expectations of the consumer. And I mean that on several fronts in terms of pricing to value, in terms of information in the system and in entreatment of the patient as a customer. Those three things are laggards. And so I think this is critical because it will bury businesses often called hospitals that don’t rise to the standard. Nobody would have thought 15 years ago that series was going to go out of business.

Saul Marquez:
Yeah. Nobody’s…

Ken Robbins:
Yeah. So this is what I think is, you know, this is the great challenge. Now there are a lot of great, there are a lot of institutions rising to meet it. You know, the larger ones have great capacity and and ability to withstand this change. And, you know, they can move a little slower. But medium size hospitals and individual medical providers, they can’t. You must act now because the consumers demanding it.

Saul Marquez:
Well, I think it’s a great point Ken and as we think about this consumerism, what are you doing today to to get ahead of this? You know that there’s companies coming up that are going to pose a threat to you. If you’re one of those companies listening, you’re like, yep, that’s me. And the differentiator service and a differentiator is ease of access. So Ken give us an example of how your company is helping clients create results by doing things differently.

Ken Robbins:
Okay. Well, there’s three things that we focus on. And this is really a transition. So you’ve been doing as a medical provider, you’ve been doing business a certain way. Patients are referred to you. They come into your office, you do a treatment and prescribe and a treatment and then maybe a follow up and hopefully your patients get well and they’re off back to their lives. But this transition is on on three fronts and this is where we help or we would try our best to serve clients and help them. The first one is, we help them understand how the customer experience must change. How they’re found? How they locate? How they give information? And how they serve them in their office, how they follow up with them to ensure customer satisfaction. Retailers, for example, are obsess over customer satisfaction. So on the front of consumer experience, the second area is in transitioning to using retail marketing techniques and retail techniques to engage with consumers because the retail industry is in the most aggressive, most rapacious competitive environment. And so you can learn from how they deal with incredibly high levels of limber and agile competition. And the third thing is we help them understand that you must, if you’re gonna if you’re gonna move to compete in a war for customers, you must think about marketing direct to consumer and doing that on an hourly basis, not merely just branding, but using metrics and data to drive how you attract new patients to your practice and facility. So here’s an example of how we do that. We work with a very large spine orthopedics neurosurgery group. And over the course of a couple of years, we help them transition to bringing in thirty five hundred surgeries a year to bring over 7,000 surgeries a year in the same facility with adding no more doctors, no more acquisition…

Saul Marquez:
Over the course of how much time?

Ken Robbins:
Over the course of three years, two and a half three years.

Saul Marquez:
That’s pretty, pretty amazing.

Ken Robbins:
And the second thing is that we help them lower their costs of patient acquisition, actual new patient acquisition by over 50% in that same period of time. How do we do it? We help them work on their conversion funnel, their landing pages, how fast they respond to people inquiring about an MRI review or a consult. And the second thing is we showed them how to scale from the channels they were in, which were maybe half digital, half online to scaling up their digital marketing, which can be incredibly measurable, incredibly efficient, too, in ways they didn’t realize. You know, just really build that up. So they began to move more money into online channels where their customers were. And then attract those customers more efficiently, which helped drive both volume and increase the efficiency.

Saul Marquez:
Well, I think that’s an amazing example and it’s not that hard, folks. But the thing is, you got to know what you’re looking for. You got to know what to do. You know, Ken an example that I use all the time and when I talk to people about these kinds of things, as my wife and I went to Maui, it was probably like five, six years ago. We were it was February so we were gonna go see some of the whales. And I tell you, man, we took different vantage points, got close, look from far. We didn’t see whales anywhere. We got on a boat, specific whale watching boat tour. And the tour guide told us, this is what you have to look for. This is what they do. And it was like magic. Like all of a sudden we started seeing water spouting, fins splashing, tails splashing, kind of small movements. And I remember looking at my wife and we drove away. We were on the mountain top looking down. And we would… we saw whales everywhere Ken. And I think about what you do like that right… you just think we don’t know. We don’t know the stuff that you know. But when you give us those insights, it makes it easier.

Ken Robbins:
Well, yes, you know, we all need guides. I hire probably at least consultants every year for some area of the business, whether it’s H.R. or sales, or customer service. You know, so I think that I found this to be true in my own life and in my partners and sometimes my executive team laughs at me because they know when I’m reading a new book. Everything we all need to know has already been done. Solved for by someone. And they’ve written a book about it. It’s amazing. So a great book is Tested Advertising Methods. It was written twenty five years ago. It has every secret you can imagine for headlines, value propositions, how to test things.

Saul Marquez:
Twenty five years ago?

Ken Robbins:
Yeah, was written before the Internet age.

Saul Marquez:
And do you think it still works?

Ken Robbins:
Absolutely. It’s mandatory reading in our company.

Saul Marquez:
Is that right?

Ken Robbins:
Yes.

Saul Marquez:
Tested advertising methods. And you go, folks, great recommendation. Okay. So I mean, phenomenal right.. I mean, who wouldn’t want to double their business in three years? I would. And and and so interesting to think about that that opportunity even exists to do that. Give us an example Ken of maybe when something hasn’t worked out, like what’s the mistake that has created issues? But then you really learn from it and became better.

Ken Robbins:
Well, that’s an easy one, because I can point very clearly to in our in our 20 year history, the biggest mistake I ever made and the biggest single mistake. I… and it’s not even in the medical world. It is… I had Home Depot as a client, an independent local agency based in Atlanta with a Dow 30 component retailer as a client. And we helped them move into the Internet age. They, in the beginning had less than 50 million dollars in online revenues. By the time our relationship ended, they had $1.2 billion in revenues to online sales. Yes, it was great. And it was liver fantastic company all the way around. But what I failed to understand was I thought at that time, this is a huge lesson for me. And this is back in 2009 that my team’s production of new sales was the key to them retaining us as an agency and being our customer. And they fired us in 2009. In July of 2009, I had to lay off 22 people in one day in a company of 60 people. And it was humbling. But what I learned from that was, is that my, I’m hired to accomplish a financial objective for clients and help them grow their customer base or their patient volume, if you will. But they expect more and they expect a better service experience from they expect me to be perfectly aligned and attuned to their changing goals, the difficulties they have, helping them manage their budget, things that go outside of just managing the marketing. And so I really after that, I went on a quest. And that quest was to discover how to retain clients longer. It was literally a retention quest, but that retention quest was probably the wrong goal. That was the proxy that led me to a book, a book entitled Trusted Advisor, which was written five or six maybe eight years ago by a guy named Charles Green. Trusted Advisor transformed the way I think about customer service and client service in the professional services industry. And all of our I brought Charles’s team in, my entire…

Saul Marquez:
You did?

Ken Robbins:
Yeah. My entire client service layer and leaders in the company have all been trained in trusted adviser thinking. And you know what it is? It’s not so much do this, do that. It’s more of a context change where we had it. The problem wasn’t the client like Home Depot. The problem is us. We were thinking transactionally, we go in, we manage your marketing, we get paid. But this is, it moved us to the mindset of being an advocate, moving over in their shoes and thinking about all the difficulties that an enterprise level client hospital, for example, faces politics, budget constraints, HIPA compliance, all the things in thinking about all those difficulties and all they want is there is not just their marketing to be effective, they needed to be smooth and easy. So now we focus on making the way they engage with us and helping them create smooth and easy marketing for them. Well, how can we take a load off? It’s really a servant sort of perspective. That book transformed me and I would say, you know, “Brate, we had this phrase, breakdowns lead to breakthroughs.” And that’s clearly a case where a huge breakdown in the company with our largest single largest client led to a breakthrough for us. And it took about four years for us to really discover this.

Saul Marquez:
What a great insight Ken and wow, you know, just thinking through and it is important, right? I mean, what are you doing beyond transactional? And it’s key. And so a component of the listeners Ken are, you know, providers. So, you know, a lot of physicians and hospital executives. But we also have a good amount of industry. So as as we think about this type of marketing and the insights that you’re offering, how could a medical device company or a pharma company or digital therapeutic company take advantage of this method?

Ken Robbins:
Well, I think that… so here’s a great example. My fitness pal, that’s an online platform, Right.. That’s.

Saul Marquez:
Under Armour now?

Ken Robbins:
Yeah. Yeah, it’s on my Under Armour. I used my fitness pal and my weight loss journey. And it’s a great tool. But it frustrates me in many ways, it frustrates me for the number of ads that I have to see. Can I pay for premium? Yes. But when I look at the feature list for premium, it’s just not that much greater. I mean, I would be happy to pay for the premium version of it, but I don’t see I get that much more. There’s no promise of eliminating all the all the ads that come through and making the interface easier. It’s just you know, it’s a… they don’t understand how difficult it is to use the device to pull out data, see trends like even the date ranges in the system. I can’t set the date ranges in shorter than, say, one week in order to see a pattern of whether my nutrition levels or protein levels or micronutrients or anything like that. So I think that any one selling to customers doesn’t matter the industry. They have to step out of their shoes and step over into the customer’s shoes and see how frustrating it is to use their product or their service. It’s… think about this. It’s crazy that medical providers have gotten so efficient. They’ve driven costs down so much that you 100% of the time get a voicemail system or an IVR when you call it. Now, I don’t know if you know if you have kids, but you know, if you’ve ever had daughters and you played soccer. I don’t understand why their EMT is on the football field at every game. They have pads and helmets. There are more concussions on a soccer field than in any other sport I’ve ever seen. I’ve watched several daughters over the years being carried off a soccer field because they clocked each other at a full head on collision. Think about that. The mom puts daughter in the back of the SUV and the daughter’s disoriented and she’s concerned about her. She’s laying down, you know, asking her questions. She’s trying to rush her to urgent care or to an emergency department. And she’s dialing the number, maybe wanting to ask questions, to this urgent care. “Let me call them and let them know I’m coming” and ask questions. And the first thing she gets while her daughter’s riding in the backseat is press 1 for billing. Press 2 for to reach your patient care coordinator. Press 3. And then you get on the phone and you know, there’s so many questions, there’s not the sense of urgency about the customer experience. So I think that’s probably the greatest piece of advice I can offer is put yourself in the customer’s shoes. What friction are you creating in buying your product or using your product?

Saul Marquez:
Great advice. So if we had to take a look at the other side of the coin, Ken you offered us that moment you know, and Home Depot went away. You laid off 22 people. Insights four years later. I mean, now you guys are doing so well. What’s one of your proudest experiences to date in what you do?

Ken Robbins:
Well, I… there are a number of things I’m proud of, they usually relate to other people’s accomplishments. You know, landing a large client or someone succeeding in a way they they hadn’t hadn’t planned to. But I think that if you’re asking me for me personally, I know I did this. This really wasn’t at the time the accomplishment I lost one hundred and twenty six pounds over a five year period. And as I think I may have mentioned it you before. I didn’t really do it with, um, with a lot of exercise, although I did exercise. That wasn’t the driving factor. It was putting less in. It was changing my diet. And I was already vegan. I haven’t eat meat in 26 years, but I was three hundred twenty nine pounds at one point. So this is what makes me prideful about that. It’s not the fact I’m I’m thinner and can now buy off the rack instead of in the Excel Department.

Saul Marquez:
Yup.

Ken Robbins:
It’s the fact that other people in my company have lost weight. And they will tell me I started this because you lost so much. I went to dinner with you and you refused to have bread and you didn’t have pasta and you had a huge salad while eating steak. And, you know, my… there are multiple executives in my company that have lost more than 25 pounds and three or four that have lost more than 75 pounds.

Saul Marquez:
Wow.

Ken Robbins:
And most of them points to watching me go through my transformation over a four or five year period and that it’s incredibly gratifying. That makes it like, wow. Well, I can’t. It’s actually it’s inspiring and buttressing against getting healthy again. It makes me more conscientious about how I eat, knowing that other people are taking a cue from what I did.

Saul Marquez:
Congratulations on that Ken I mean that was not easy.

Ken Robbins:
No,it was, you know, but it was worth it. And if it was, you know, no, it wasn’t easy, but it wasn’t not easy. I mean, at the end of the day, unlike my wife, I didn’t have to fight cancer.

Saul Marquez:
That’s an honest truth. Good point. So that’s a good point. Yeah. You know, and I you know, one of my favorite quotes Ken is, you’re the average of your five closest peers. And I like that you did that. You’re really… I mean, it shows Right. everybody around you is doing it too, which is amazing what you’ve been able to do to positively impact the health of your company.

Ken Robbins:
Well, thank you. Thanks.

Saul Marquez:
So tell us about an exciting project you’re working on.

Ken Robbins:
Well, we have spent the last several years working in the hospital environment and meeting with hospitals, consulting with them and working with them as clients. And I think that in the last few months, my head of client services and I have been working on what’s the next stage for us? What’s the next thing we should focus on? And the most exciting thing I think that’s going on at Responce Mine Health is our push into telehealth marketing. So all the hospitals now nationwide have telemedicine on their radar or they have the capabilities or they have large installed bases. I mean, a Cleveland clinic just gave a presentation this last weekend about the tens of thousands of people that they have signed up for telemedicine. But with this is truly retail competitive because now if you’re a hospital, let’s say you have a market service area, you know the city you work in and your footprint. But with telemedicine and telehealth, you can go nationwide. You can reach into the most rural parts of the state you’re operating in. And people can use your service. That means now every hospital will have the ability to compete with every other hospital. Isn’t that amazing? And most of the states in the last three or four years have enacted legislation to allow medical providers to cross state lines using telemedicine and telehealth. So it could be a hotly contested market. We’ve decided that we’re going to dedicate and make a huge push into helping market telemedicine and telehealth and track the competitive environment so that people can you know, clients can understand what are the features service levels and pricing that we have to pay attention to in order to be competitive and how do we have to deliver it? And then helping them directly market it and acquire patients and customers to be, you know, on their telehealth platforms. That’s probably the most exciting thing to me because it’s just exploding as a service offering. And it gives medical providers a lot of leverage.

Saul Marquez:
Mm hmm. Yeah, that’s a that’s that is definitely exciting Ken. And, you know, it is a growing field and we’re getting closer. There’s regulations that are changing that are making it more favorable to providers. I think it’s really interesting that you decided to focus on that and with the track record that you have Ken I’m sure you’ll you’ll definitely have success. So getting into the leadership course, we’re going to build a little leadership course here, the ABCs of Ken Robbins and so you’ve got a lightning round for you. Four questions followed by a book that you recommend to the listeners. You ready?

Ken Robbins:
Okay.

Saul Marquez:
All right. What’s the best way to improve healthcare outcomes?

Ken Robbins:
Give obsessive customer service.

Saul Marquez:
What’s the biggest mistake or pitfall to avoid?

Ken Robbins:
That would definitely be dismissing a patient’s self-directed research. They’d go on the Internet to research things. They come to the table with more knowledge than they used to.

Saul Marquez:
How do you stay relevant as an organization despite constant change?

Ken Robbins:
Well, taking a cue from retailers, that’s definitely sort committing to serving customers about the service and experience that they have in buying from you.

Saul Marquez:
What is an area of focus that drives everything in your company, Ken?

Ken Robbins:
I would say measuring everything. In that measuring everything from customer service to activity levels to projects. I have I at my core, I have a measurement organization from top to bottom.

Saul Marquez:
Love that. And what book would you recommend the listeners?

Ken Robbins:
Well, that’s a good question. That’s… I really love this, this part is my favorite question of today, because it’s not a business book, it’s the book Blue Zones by a fellow named Dan Buettner. And have you ever heard of it?

Saul Marquez:
You know what? I’ve heard of the Blue Zones, but not the book.

Ken Robbins:
Well, the book is just the end result of Dan Buettner research into longevity and vitality on the planet. And he discovered these five societies in the world that have statistically significant longer lifespans. And as a correlation to that, they have statistically significant levels of absence of the four or five major diseases of old age, osteoarthritis, cardiovascular, cancers and dimensions. And it’s amazing because it’s all lifestyle, community and food. None of these communities from Costa Rica to Okinawa to Carina, Greece. They don’t go to gyms. It’s not gym memberships that drives longevity and vitality. It’s the food they eat, their lifestyle. So Blue Zones. I love it. I give it away to everybody.

Saul Marquez:
And it really falls in the in the place with how you live your life and and how you run your company. I mean, it’s that whole lifestyle. What you eat it, everything that you do there could really impact your health. And these people are living like ’til their… they’re centenarians right? I mean, this the Blue Zone areas.

Ken Robbins:
Yes. Yes.

Saul Marquez:
Yeah.

Ken Robbins:
They live to be 90 in their 90’s. And not only that, they live with a lot of vitality. So in America, we think of people living in the 90’s and maybe up to 100. A lot of them are on walkers, in wheelchairs. You know, these people are still practicing medicine. There’s a cardiologist in Loma Linda, California. At 94, who’s still doing open heart surgery.

Saul Marquez:
Wow, that is interesting and you know, I think about that. It’s something that we need to strive for, you know, not just longevity, but health span.

Ken Robbins:
Yeah. Oh, I love that phrases.

Saul Marquez:
Yeah. Yeah, let’s do, let’s increase our health span. I’m going to pick this one up. Ken I haven’t read it, but I’m you know, I’m always looking for ways to stay healthier. And I love the idea of learning from people that have done it well. And and so appreciate you making that recommendation.

Ken Robbins:
Great.

Saul Marquez:
Ken, a question that I’ve been asking more because it’s actually really fun is if you can have lunch with anybody, anybody in the world, who would it be?

Ken Robbins:
Let’s see, who would it be? Well, man you put me on the spot. There’s so many great people. Do they have to be alive? Probably.

Saul Marquez:
Well you could tell me who you would if they weren’t. But then there has to be a live person.

Ken Robbins:
Yeah. All right. That’s fair. Well, probably I would say this fellow, Dan Buettner, who wrote the Blue Zones. I’d love to have lunch with him because I know that, you know, when you write a book, that’s the distillation of everything you know. Then you have to leave out so much. A great book, a great movie. Always has so much left on the cutting room floor. And I would love to sit with him and and learn more about some of the stories and wisdoms that he picked up as he’s meeting people, you know, octogenarians and people in her 90’s and centurions. I don’t know what people in the 90’s are called, but people in their 90’s. I’d love to hear some of those stories from him.

Saul Marquez:
Maybe octogenarians and just the guests. Man no, no actually it would be 80, right? Yeah. Yeah, that’s a good question. I’ll have to look that up. Maybe, you know, you’re listening, you know. So a fascinating and knowing you Ken you’ll probably go sit down with them in you know, in a year or so. But fascinating decision there. Oh, before we conclude, I love if you could just give us a closing thought. And the best place where the listeners could continue the conversation with you.

Ken Robbins:
Well, the closing thing I would say, and I hope this is what people take away from this interview and by the way, I appreciate these questions. These are thoughtful. And, you know, this is but you’ve given me a good forum to to, you know, share some of my learnings over the last 20 years. The closing thought that I would have is a rallying point around this idea that the top retailers in the world and even now top health systems are committing to this idea of obsessing over the customer. Cleveland Clinic, for example, took all 40,000 employees and put them through a full day of customer service training and thinking about from the customer standpoint. And what… they change things as a result of that, like their parking lot and wayfinding. They realize we have a huge campus. Somebody drives eight hundred or a thousand miles to get to us and then they get here and they’re filled with anxiety. We have so many buildings, they don’t know where to go. We’ve got to change our parking lots to make it easier to exactly, precisely find where their appointment is. So they’re comfortable and it’s a smooth experience, that’s obsessing over the customer. And when you begin to think about the customer experience, it gives you a competitive advantage. So that is that’s the primary thing I would love for the listeners to take away from my time on the show today. If there’s anything I can do to help it in transforming or improving a provider’s business, a medical device on his business, the marketing is where I focus. And I would love the chance to speak to any of your listeners about helping them if it’s just to consult with them or to pick my brain. I’m happy to do that because what I strive for is I want more health. And in this country and more health will come from people being better at providing that health and the customer experience and acquiring patients. So the way to get hold of us is my telephone number is 404-475-0777 and it’s ken.robbins@responcemine.com.

Saul Marquez:
And it’s two B’s, right?

Ken Robbins:
Yes. Two B’s.

Saul Marquez:
Robbins.

Ken Robbins:
Yes.

Saul Marquez:
And we’ll leave that email in the show notes for everybody. Just go to outcomesrocket.health in the search bar, type in response mine. And you’re going to find it there. Ken, really appreciate the words of wisdom. I think everybody listening today is going to, you know, go forth, try to be a trusted advisor, step out of their shoes, step into their buyers’ shoes and recognize. I hope so. That the revolutions happening now. And we got to get ahead of that. So, Ken, really appreciate your time and your insights.

Ken Robbins:
Saul,thank you.

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