LabOps_Pray Pokharel: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.
Kerri Anderson:
By building a platform to share challenges, thoughts from leaders, and network together, the LabOps Leadership Podcast is elevating LabOps professionals as well as the industry as a whole.
Samantha Black:
With the intent of unlocking the power of LabOps, we deliver unique insights to execute the mission at hand, to standardize LabOps, and empower LabOps leaders.
Kerri Anderson:
I’m Kerrie Anderson.
Samantha Black:
And I’m Samantha Black. Welcome to the LabOps Leadership podcast.
Kerri Anderson:
Thanks for tuning in today, everyone.
Samantha Black:
We’re so excited to have Pray Pokharel with us today. He is Lab Resource Coordinator at Mori. Thanks for joining us today, Pray. Just to kick us off, can you just tell us a little bit about your background and how you got to where you are today?
Pray Pokharel:
Yes, so my name is Prayush “Pray” Pokharel, most people call me Pray, and I ended up in the LabOps through a mix of my work study in college and a little bit of helpful nepotism. So my work study in college was organizing demonstrations to show off properties of physics at UMass Amherst, where I got my BA, and my BA is in physics and my BS is mathematics, and I also have a certificate in film. And that combined with a little bit of nepotism that got me working in the genomics automation department at Broad at the Broad in 2016, just kind of combined all the skills to being like, this kid’s really good at lab operations, like working in a lab, but not like the science stuff, the organizing stuff, troubleshooting stuff, getting stuff where it needs to be at the right time and safety.
Samantha Black:
Yeah, that’s awesome. So it’s really interesting, tell us maybe like what you’re doing today. Give us a little bit of background on like your roles and responsibilities and the company you work for and what you do there.
Pray Pokharel:
Right, so I currently work at a company called Mori. So what we do there is we extract a protein from silk and use it in food preservation, and the protein itself is a food, right? So we’re using food to save food and using food to eliminate waste in all the ways we can, right? So can we use it to replace packaging? Can we use it to increase the number of products that can go on trucks, right? So because you can only fill a truck like 40, 50% of the way. Otherwise, the respiration is a problem. So our product maybe has applications there and there’s lots of ways that our product is useful. So using food to save food. More food, less waste is our motto.
Samantha Black:
That’s awesome. And so what do you do at the organization and what are your, what is a day in the life of Pray?
Pray Pokharel:
Yeah, so primary function I have at the organization is the lab resource coordinator. So if it’s a resource in the lab, I have to coordinate it, is the literal way, but it’s mostly a mix of EHS, logistics in terms of hazardous waste collection and removal, a little bit of facilities, so what work can happen and what space, what HVAC needs do we have maintaining that HVAC, environmental monitoring. So a typical day looks like I come in, make sure we have enough lab coats, enough safety glasses, make sure everyone’s waste containers are labeled properly, and make sure all the waste and the waste room looks good. I make sure that any needs that any members have are met, right, so is this piece of equipment being weird? Can I fix that in-house or do I go to call a vendor? Do I have to call the manufacturer or do we have a third party that comes and deals with this stuff? Asset Management, so are all the lab benches labeled, or is all our equipment labeled? Do we have the right from a financial standpoint, right? Is everything all set and good to go? And then just the usual day-to-day Ops of somebody runs into the lab and goes, Hey, can I use this chemical in the back of the lab? And the chemicals and SDS very clearly says, use in a few minutes, Hey, no, can’t do that. So a bit of, it’s hard to say a day in the life of, for Ops, right, because you have your whole day planned and then somebody comes in and goes, we have 100 investors and 13 new chemicals coming in today. Okay, let’s work it out, let’s figure it out.
Samantha Black:
Yeah, but I mean, that’s like half the excitement, right? Is like, what do you want to be doing something where it’s the same day in and day out? Like, would you really be happy doing that?
Pray Pokharel:
Yeah, no, no. Yeah, there are days, it’s funny because in Ops, the fantasy job is, is where you sit at a desk for 3 hours and you just do spreadsheets and no one bothers you. Like that’s a, that’s like the perfect day. And maybe once a month it’s okay, but it wouldn’t be as fun, right?
Kerri Anderson:
Yeah, those days are rare when you get to actually sit at your desk for a long period of time. So when you first got into operations, I mean, did you just learn everything on the job? You know, it’s something I’ve noticed is there’s not a lot of training for this. So how did you learn how to do the job?
Pray Pokharel:
Yes, so a lot of the specifics of lab work and lab operations come from working in the lab and not being afraid to ask the dumb questions like, hey, why is that thing over there when it would make sense for it to be over here? It’s well, if you put it there, the HVAC systems right above it, whatever, but a lot of the soft skills, right? Because the ultimate soft skill to me, for operations, is customer service, right? And that came from being a bartender. So I was a bartender for about three years out of college, junior year of college, just when I started. And that naturally just lends itself to that demonstration coordinator job and the LabOps jobs. It just lends itself very easily because it’s like at the end of the day, even so, before I was at Mori, I was at an incubator, so there it’s a directly a customer service kind of, like they are our customers. Whereas even like internally when I’m at Mori, yes, you are my teammate, but you are my customer in a way. Like you need something from me that only I can provide you. So it’s about being polite, understanding there’s haste. I worked at a sushi bar near a movie theater, so everyone was like, Oh, sushi is a quick meal. So people would run in and be like, My movie is in 10 minutes and I want three spicy tuna rolls. And it’s like, All right, we’ll make it happen. It’s the same in Ops. It’s like, I need to do this reaction next week and I need these chemicals and their lead time is three weeks. It’s like, All right, I’ll make some calls. We’ll see what we can do.
Kerri Anderson:
Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. I mean, it’s funny. I think a lot of people don’t realize that operations is customer service, but it is, absolutely. But so one thing I’ve noticed, you’re in EHS, and for me personally, I’ve kind of had this hard time between EHS and Ops just because EHS is a little less customer service, because you’re making sure they’re being safe and you’re having to actually kind of patrol the safety of the lab versus, in operations, you’re meeting their needs. So how do you juggle that?
Pray Pokharel:
Also, luckily, I was a bartender and not a server, so it’s a little easier, right? So then I have to lean more toward the, I’m sorry, sir, I have to, right? So in bartending, when you have to cut a customer off, you put a lot of the onus on yourself. You say, I cannot serve you because of these rules and regulations. So with EHS it’s the same thing, you can still have the customer service of like I would love to let you use this acid in the middle of the lab, but OSHA says, I literally cannot let you do that. So it’s, not necessarily to say like you’re passing off the buck, but like there’s a way to be like, you cannot do this. I cannot let you do this, but like, if the circumstances were different, we can make it happen, right? So if EHS, you then, that’s where Ops comes into play with the EHS to me. EHS is saying these are the, this is your box and Ops is, All right, we’re going to make this thing fit in the box and maybe we can make the box bigger and smaller based off our interpretations of certain regulations, but for the most part, that’s where the EHS comes into play. It’s the, Ops is beholden to standards and regulations, but it’s our job to be, like, very clear and poignant about like, why is this the case, right? Because at the end of the day, people hopefully will understand, like, I can’t let you do this because I don’t want you getting hurt. It’s not like a personal vendetta. Like you come in here with ten fingers. I need you leaving with ten fingers.
Kerri Anderson:
Yeah, absolutely, that’s a great way of looking at it. So what’s something you see that LabOps is helping to do for companies to move the development of science along faster?
Pray Pokharel:
So in my head, when you have a really strong Ops department that can meet the needs of your team, it’s the same as when you add an extra scientist or new equipment to the space to increase throughput, right? If you add another Ops coordinator or another lab manager or someone with operational connections in the building, they can meet those needs faster and faster, and also, I mean, if your operations are going really well, it’s a good sign to your investors and everyone, right? So at my previous job, Greentown Labs last year, they recently had their climate tech summit. But a year ago, this annual event, they had some investors on-site and some people who work in other incubator spaces. And some people are noting more and more investors and more and more people are looking at how companies operate and how smooth their operations are behind the scenes and not just like the efficacy of their technology, because if they’re running the company really well, then it just means R&D goes faster and smoother. And if it’s compliant, that’s great too, because no one wants a giant blemish on their portfolio, right? It’s like, yeah, this company cut greenhouse emissions by 5%, but they also like have, three out of every ten workers leaves with an injury. So, you know, it’s like, it’s, it’s almost like PR in a way on that end from the regulation side of like this is good PR, a company runs really well operationally and you have the seemingly indirect benefit oftentimes of like you’ve increased throughput and progress because everything is moving so smooth in the background. No one needs to wait for test tubes. Nobody needs to like spend a day researching what is the regulation around this. You have an Ops team that does that for you, and sometimes that’s really hard to get across because like on paper, Ops is just a money sink, right? Like there’s no direct revenue generation by operations. But when you actually start to think about it, it’s like, oh, if no one takes the trash out, we can’t work in this building anymore, right? So it’s understanding the ROI of Ops is, it’s a more nuanced kind of approach.
Kerri Anderson:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that’s one of the things that surprises me is you see so many mid-sized companies that still don’t have a lab manager. They have their scientists doing everything. And operations really is that role that can help support move things along.
Samantha Black:
Yeah, I mean, I think that, it speaks. So like, it’s like almost a hidden, hidden resource or a hidden gem within the company because, you know, if you, the presence or the absence of a LabOps manager or Ops manager is really felt, but I feel like not everybody values it the same way. You know, I think being in a, in my role, I’m also in a support capacity. I don’t bring in any direct revenue and I can feel like really hard sometimes, you know, when everybody is celebrating the big wins all around you and you’re really helping to support and you’re essential to that process, but you’re not able to be recognized for what you do. That can be really challenging, but just like you said, like it maybe just isn’t recognized publicly, but I do think that people value operations and what Ops teams bring to the table. So what experience, like where, is there a time when you have been recognized, or do you feel really recognized in your role? Or what, if you don’t, you know, like what is something that could make you feel empowered and valued?
Pray Pokharel:
Yes, so I find the time that you are most often recognized in operations is when you save a bunch of money, right? So whether that means switching from one vendor to another vendor joining programs like the mass bio program, and then you get all the discounts are listed there, and then the other benefits of the mixing and mingling events and all that stuff. So in general, the, it’s like a joke I have with myself is that whenever I get a LabOps job, I need to pay for myself within the first few months, so I need to save whatever my salary is. And the area I tend to do that the most is with hazardous waste management, so that’s where I, that’s where I got like my big start in Ops when I, when I joined Greentown because there’s like at the time, I think ten companies in our wet lab generating hazardous waste and they’re all different streams and there’s all these rules and all this stuff. So I simplified it so much that the scientists couldn’t mess it up, and then I organized everything so much that I couldn’t mess it up. And then we joined Mass Bio through doing some research and, that my lab manager already done, so I just like did the final steps to push that through, and I paid for myself. And then in my new job, I did the same thing. I came in and they were using those biohazard burn boxes for all their general lab debris. And I was like, No, no, no, we got to not do that. That’s not what you need to do. Because there’s, even though we work with proteins, we’re not actually doing hard microbial work, that it doesn’t need these things. So I came in, I was like, we need to do all this, we can shift all these, we need to buy these waste containers, we’ll put all these signs up, but neither of these things like come up in an all hands meeting with, like and everybody congratulate Pray for saving us $40,000 on burn boxes. It’s just like a thing that you know that your direct report really appreciates it. And more than anything, this is a personal one for me because my dad’s an accountant, if the finance team thanks you, that means you’re really doing some good work. Like, that’s all you need. You need the finance team to thank you because a few days later, then the CEO is going to come over and thank you.
Samantha Black:
Yeah, I think you’re on to something there.
Kerri Anderson:
Yeah. I was going to say, I think we need to do like a webinar series on this, on how we can save money in Ops.
Samantha Black:
Yeah, I think you make a lot of good points there and I think you know what you’re doing in this role, and you just have to stick to your gut, you know, like I think that’s a lot of it from what you’ve described. I’m kind of curious, you know, you do know what you’re doing. You are successful here, and one thing that we talk a lot about is career development. So can you maybe, do you have an idea where you’re going next? Like, what does that look like for you?
Pray Pokharel:
Yeah, so it is interesting, right? Because the ultimate final role of an operations person in my head at least, is COO, right, or CEO, or something like C-suite, right? I personally am not, really, find myself a C-suite executive kind of guy. Part of the reason I like Ops is being a little bit more low-key but getting a lot done. So for me, I think consulting is where I would like to go, right? Because if I can come into a place, get all the operations done really well, what’s to say I can do that for three or four other companies at a time and then or EHS consulting, Ops, consulting, whatever it is I find. The thing about Ops that brings me the most joy and stimulation is here, problem X, solution Y, that’s it, right? The path there is not a straight arrow, there’s lots of dashes and squiggles and everything, but that’s where I find the most enjoyment. So that’s what I see my ultimate career path in becoming, you know, lab manager at some point probably, and then whatever that next thing is senior lab manager, director of lab resources, whatever those things are, but ultimately to me, I think consulting is like the other thing that an operations person can do. You can either move up the corporate ladder and get the C-suite or you can become a consultant. And I guess there you could also do the corporate ladder thing, but for me, I think consulting is the next big thing. And it’s also funny because for me, so I have, my degree is in math and physics, I wanted to be like a scientist. I have never gotten to do bench work. I went straight into Ops. So there’s also another dream of, another world where I, like all right, I’m done operating the lab, now, I’m going to be the one who makes a mess, it’s my turn. I’m going to mix the chemicals, I’m going to make the films or do whatever. So it really depends, I think a lot of Ops professionals are the reverse of my situation where they were scientists and they end up in operations because they were just tired of their lab looking like a mess. We have somebody, my direct manager is sort of like that. So there’s a lot of ways that it could end up because it’s such an intersectional like Swiss Army knife of a role. So you could go up and hit management and admin and executive suite, you could go back into the science or you could switch completely, right? Because any department needs operations, so you can decide, I really like the finance part, you go into procurement and the finance team and accounting or you’re like, I really liked when we did events, waybe we’ll, I’ll join the events in a human team and all that stuff. So you kind of have your pick in a way, but you need to know where you really strive and succeed in this role. And for me, that’s the EHS problem-solving, so consulting is the way I’d like to go.
Kerri Anderson:
Yeah, there’s a lot there that you can do with it. So it’s obvious to us that you’re passionate about LabOps and you’re good at what you do. So what’s some advice you would have for someone who’s maybe listening to this podcast and interested in getting in lab operations or is just getting started?
Pray Pokharel:
This is advice I think I try to give everyone, regardless, work in food service, retail or volunteering in some capacity. Learn those really hard, hard soft skills that make sense, like the soft skills that are really hard to get, like dealing with people that you don’t want to deal with sometimes, doing things that are thankless, working in very fast, breakneck-paced settings will really give you the sense of, Did I enjoy any part of this? And if so, yes, operations is for me. And then think about what you like to do on a day to day. Are you a problem solver? Then Ops is probably a good place. Are you more of like having a standard routine and you know what’s going to happen day to day? You might want to go more to the science route and stick with the science and you know what you’re doing. So but if you like getting a breadth of knowledge about a wide variety of things, if you like that bit of personal connection with you have to forge with people to get work done, and you like solving problems, Operations is probably the place for you. And if you have a passion for science, operations is great because you get to learn all the science that everyone is doing, but you don’t have to deal with, okay, now I have to run this trial 100 times, right? So for me, that’s the big benefit, it’s like I get to be around all this science, but I don’t have to deal with all the monotony of the science.
Kerri Anderson:
Yeah, I think you summed that up perfectly.
Samantha Black:
Yeah, I think that’s pretty spot on, and I think that it’s great advice. I think that people who are just coming into this and who are considering it, I think that’s a good place for them to start. So last question for you, you know, you do have this wealth of knowledge, and so if somebody is out there considering this or they have questions or something that you said resonated with them, where can they find you? How can they connect with you and how can they get to know you better?
Pray Pokharel:
Yeah, so I mean, in a professional capacity, the best place to find me is LinkedIn. I have a pretty unique name, so I’m probably going to be one of the top. It’s either going to be me or a guy in Baton Rouge, I believe, we’re the two biggest Prayush Pokharels out there, but he’s like a software engineer or something, so it’s not him, it’s me. So my name is Prayush “Pray” Pokharel on the platform. But if you’re not into the corporate social media apps, you can find me on most social media. I’m usually PrayJack and then social media so you can find me like that. Those are the best ways to do it. There’s also, I have an inquiry email, it’s pray@prayjack.com. You can hit me there if you have any questions. I’m always happy to chat about Pps and … Waste and EHS and whatever it may be.
Samantha Black:
Awesome, perfect. Well, Pray, thank you so much. This has been a great conversation. Thank you for sharing your insights, we really appreciate it.
Pray Pokharel:
Thank you, I’m always happy to talk Ops.
Kerri Anderson:
Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the LabOps Leadership Podcast. We hope you enjoyed today’s guest.
Samantha Black:
For show notes, resources, and more information about LabOps Unite, please visit us at LabOps.Community/Podcast. This show is powered by Elemental Machines.
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