EHH_Lyn Delmastro-Thomson: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

EHH_Lyn Delmastro-Thomson: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Everyone Hates Healthcare Intro:
For many people today, healthcare feels like we’re behind enemy lines. The system is geared to take care of us, but why do we feel like we’re in it alone? Everyday stories are a powerful way to shine light on the gaps that make it feel this way. I’d like to welcome you to Everyone Hates Healthcare, where we bring you real people’s healthcare stories unfiltered. And now your host, Michael Swartz.

Michael Swartz:
Hey, everybody! Michael Swartz here, and I want to welcome you back to the show. Today, we have Lyn Delmastro-Thomson. Lyn is a certified hypnotherapist and mind-body medicine practitioner, using the healing systems of body talk and body intuitive. She is also a speaker and author of the Amazon bestseller You Are Not Your Diagnosis. Lyn holds a master’s degree in somatic psychology and has completed additional specialized training in biofeedback, therapeutic yoga, and Reiki. After being misdiagnosed with leukemia at age 25, Lyn became passionate about sharing with the world her message that just because a doctor has said an illness is chronic or inaccurate doesn’t mean that it has to be a life sentence and that Western medicine isn’t the only approach to healing. When we explore other holistic options, true healing, rather than symptom management, can occur. Lyn now sees herself as a mentor to others on the healing path, teaching them tools and skills to advocate for themselves when dealing with doctors, as well as encouraging them to take self-care part of their daily lives. Lyn, I want to welcome you to the podcast, very excited to be talking to you.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
Yeah, excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Michael Swartz:
So I want to kick things off and learn more about how you got to where you are. Tell us about what led you to go on to this healing path.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
Yes, so my journey started with my own healing crisis, so I’ll kind of rewind back into the story, which started in my mid-twenties. I was in grad school and I was studying for a Ph.D. in history, wanted to become a professor. And so I was about three years into that journey and that summer of 2004, I was scheduled for elective surgery, and so, did all of the stuff leading up to the surgery, saw the surgeon, got the pre-op blood work, and the night before the surgery, I got a phone call from my surgeon and he said, yeah, there’s something, I got your pre-op blood work and something doesn’t look quite right. And I started to panic and he said, you know, don’t quite panic yet, because sometimes things happen in labs and mistakes are made, so why don’t you just run back over to the hospital, they’ll draw some more blood and they’ll run the test again just to make sure. So I did that and I get back home and probably an hour later I get another phone call from him and he said, yeah, it’s not a lab error. Unfortunately, I can’t do surgery on you, there’s something wrong with your blood work. And I was just left with kind of that at that point. Like he told me, go see your primary doctor as soon as possible, I can’t do surgery. And as you probably can imagine, just getting that news and having no idea of what he was referring to, being off was pretty scary and just kind of hard to sleep, hard to relax that night. So I go to the primary doctor, I believe, the next morning, and he proceeds to run a whole bunch more blood work and more tests. And the next thing I know, a day or two later, I get this phone call from a doctor who I have never met before, which is, if anybody’s familiar with the medical system, that doesn’t really happen, like you don’t just get phone calls from doctors you don’t know. So as soon as I got that phone call, I was kind of freaking out. And he said, you know, how are you doing? I said, other than freaked out because I don’t know who you are or why you’re calling me, I’m okay. And he said, well, okay, if you don’t have any symptoms tonight, you can stay home tonight, but I need you to come to the hospital tomorrow and meet me, but if you have any symptoms tonight, come to the hospital. And looking back on that part of the story now, I’m kind of like, wow, you know, I didn’t even think to ask him what I should be looking for.

Michael Swartz:
He still didn’t tell you anything?

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
No, it was just this whole, like, you know, and I was so shell shocked that it’s like, you know, just random doctors calling me, just kind of like, oh, you know? So I didn’t know what I should be looking for. I had, the only clue I had was he said he was a gastroenterologist. I was like, okay, I kind of know what a gastroenterologist sort of does. I guess that would be the area I’d probably be looking for some symptoms then. And so spent a very, very restless night. I don’t even remember how I managed to sleep and no weird symptoms appeared. So I report to the hospital the next day and he meets me there, and he says, you know, we need to start doing some tests, but we think that maybe what happened is that you clotted off the veins that drain your liver. And my brain went, that’s not supposed to happen, I don’t think. And we’re going to figure out why this happened and what to do about it. So I go through the whole process of another specialist having to come in who attempted to do a bone marrow biopsy, and that was very excruciatingly painful. I could not tolerate it because I was only given just a little local injection, I get. Yeah, I still remember that part of the story where he just said to me, all you’re going to feel in is a little bit of pressure. And I took his word for it, you know, even though I’m thinking in my brain, like bone marrow biopsy doesn’t sound like it’s an easy thing, you know, he’s the doctor. And it was not just a little bit of pressure, way more pain than I could have imagined possible. He had to stop doing the procedure. And so I think this was a couple of days I was admitted into the hospital. They’re doing all these tests, more blood work, more, I think I went for CT scans and things like that. And they confirmed, yes, you’ve clotted off these veins that drain your liver. You need to figure out what to do to get them open, and we still are trying to figure out why this happened. And they said we’ve never done this procedure that they have to open up the veins of the liver, so we’re going to send you somewhere that’s done this before, which was definitely a relief not to be a first-time patient.

Michael Swartz:
You don’t want to be the first time.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
No, in a medical field, you don’t want to be the guinea pig. So they transferred me up to a different hospital because I was in a smaller community in California at the time. So I went to a major medical center and they did the process to balloon open the portal veins of the liver, and then continued with the process of trying to figure out the underlying cause of the clotting. And so I went through another bone marrow biopsy, this time with a lot more pain medication so that they could actually finish it. And I was in that hospital for probably close to ten days, going through all of the poking and prodding and just the horrible experience. If anybody’s been through diagnostic process and being in the hospital, you know, it’s a long haul. And finally, they came up with a diagnosis. And the diagnosis that they gave me at the time was chronic myelogenous leukemia.

Michael Swartz:
Oh, my goodness.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
So in the span of two weeks, I went from seeing myself as, you know, just a healthy 25-year-old doing my life, not the happiest person in the world, to somebody who was given a diagnosis of leukemia.

Michael Swartz:
The thoughts must have just been racing at this time.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
I mean, I still can, that moment, it will probably never go out of my mind. You know, the scene of being in the hospital room, hearing the word leukemia, and immediately just racing to, what did that mean? Like, does that mean I need chemo? Do I need a bone marrow transplant like?

Michael Swartz:
So you get this leukemia diagnosis? What do you do? Like where do you turn to?

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
I’m, you know, basically, you’re kind of dropped with this bomb in your lap. And then the doctor talked to me for a few more minutes answering a few of the questions that were racing through my mind. No, you don’t need to go through chemo or have a bone marrow transplant. You’re just going to start taking this medication that’s supposed to treat this underlying genetic mutation that they believe causes CML. And basically, it was like, okay, well, now you get to go back home to your life and start seeing the doctor who was the one who did the first bone marrow biopsy, or attempted to, and kind of a good luck situation, you know? It was left to me to kind of pick up the pieces, really, and try and figure out like, how do you just cope with the fact that you feel like a nuclear bomb just was set off in your life, and what are you supposed to do?

Michael Swartz:
And at 25.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
At 25, when you know, you think, I have my whole entire life ahead of me. You know, I, at first when all of this had happened, I had zero symptoms of anything. You know, eventually, I did develop like, my belly got all distended because my liver wasn’t able to work properly, so I had all of this fluid in my belly. But it was just surreal to go from just going about your daily life to being told you have leukemia.

Michael Swartz:
So 25 years old, you’ve just been diagnosed with leukemia. Take us through like, I can’t imagine, like, where you would turn, especially knowing how crazy the healthcare system is and how complicated it is. Where did you turn?

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
You know, initially, there wasn’t a whole lot that I found to turn to. I think fairly early into the process, it was recommended that I start going to a support group, and I absolutely didn’t want to go to a support group for my own mental well-being, like the idea of being kind of with a bunch of other people going through cancer treatment was like, I don’t want to hang out in that environment. Like, I knew it would depress me further. For some people that might be a great resource, but for me it was like, no, hard pass.

Michael Swartz:
Doing what’s right for you.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
Exactly, and support groups can be great for some people. Just, I knew in my bones that it was not for me. It was going to just bring me down if anything. So I tried for a bit to just kind of go back to living my life. Like I tried to go through the motions of doing my graduate school program and, you know, my day-to-day life and doctor’s appointments and this and that. But what I started to experience was, you know, my doctor kept saying, who would run this particular lab test after I had started the medication they put me on, and he would say, oh, it looks like the medication is working. And I actually started to notice my health was not improving, my health was actually getting worse. So it was a very confusing experience to be told one thing, and then over time, I started to just lose an incredible amount of weight, like an unhealthy amount of weight, and not to really be taken seriously when I would say I don’t feel better, like I would go see that same doctor, you know, and my mind tortured me in the hospital and the appointment, he would look at the lab tests, he would say, well, how are you feeling? And I would say, I don’t feel well. And I would give him my list of what didn’t feel good to me and what was wrong, and he would quickly say to me, while you look great, which was I knew a lie because people were starting to tell me, like, Lyn, you don’t look well, you’re losing all of this weight. So he was like, lying to me, and I knew he, it was not, just, it didn’t jive with my lived experience. And I started to keep asking my primary doctor, could you send me to a different hematologist? Like, I don’t feel like this is, you know, this guy is not listening to me. You know, if you say to somebody, I don’t feel well and they tell you, you look great like there’s a big disconnect there. And I couldn’t get a referral to a new hematologist.

Michael Swartz:
They wouldn’t give you one?

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
He wouldn’t, you know, I kept saying, isn’t there someone else here in town? And he said, oh, trust me, we went to medical school together, this guy is the best in town. And in my mind I’m thinking, if this guy is the best in town, that’s scary. Like he doesn’t listen to his patients. But, you know, the way the healthcare system is, you need a referral. You can’t just be like, oh, I’m going to just go see a new specialist. Your insurance won’t pay for it without your doctor giving you a referral.

Michael Swartz:
It’s like a checklist too, it’s like they have a process. It just sounds like the doctor was just going through the process, not really trying to understand you.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
Yeah, and I had always considered the primary doctor to be a good doctor, and I had liked him up until that point. But it was so frustrating to keep requesting something and to be told, no, no, no. Like, trust me, keep going to this guy, when like, on the inside, I was like, my intuition was screaming at me, I need a different doctor, I need somebody to listen to me. And I went through that experience of having being stuck with him as my doctor for three years because I couldn’t get a referral.

Michael Swartz:
So what do you do in that situation where you know you need to go to a different doctor? You don’t feel like this doctor really is understanding or even listening to you. What do you do?

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
Well, the first thing that I actually attempted to do was I attempted to go back up to San Francisco, where I had been in the hospital, that they did the diagnosis, and I attempted to go to their outpatient hematology clinic and kind of asking basically for a re-evaluation or somebody to look at my case. And so my parents had traveled to be with me to do this. We had to drive like 5 hours to get to this hospital and we get to this appointment and sitting there and the doctor opens up, well, she says, okay, what can I help you with? And I explained, you know, I’m here, this is the diagnosis I was given. I don’t feel like I’m getting better. She opens up the file folder on her desk and there’s not a piece of paper of my case history in her file.

Michael Swartz:
Oh, fantastic.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
And it was like, I was in the hospital here for ten days, where are my records, you know? Like, what do you think I’m here for? You know, to just have a nice little chat? No, I’m here because I want somebody to help me. And we spent, I think we had, I don’t remember how long the appointment was. We spent whatever time we had, basically refilling this person in on my history, and then there was no time for anything more to be done.

Michael Swartz:
Oh, you must have been livid.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
I definitely was very, very angry. It was like, well, that was a complete and utter waste of my time, you know? And here I had hope that somebody might look at things and give me an explanation of why I wasn’t getting better. And it was like, well, they didn’t even have a piece of paper with my history.

Michael Swartz:
This is just giving you more and more confidence into the system.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
Yes, yeah, you can definitely tell. You know, I’ve had my experience with the system and I have some areas that I’m like, there’s significant room for improvement in our healthcare system.

Michael Swartz:
Just a little bit.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
Just a little bit. So I had that experience and then I went back and was kind of stuck for a period of time, because I was in grad school I had student health insurance and at that time it was before Obamacare. You couldn’t get something like COBRA, you couldn’t, it wasn’t considered quote, creditable coverage. So I couldn’t just like leave my program and just get insurance. I had to get a job. So I basically had made the decision because I was, I realized I was miserable in the program that I was in and I didn’t want to keep going. And so my solution was to go out and get a job. And I said, it’s just got to be a job with healthcare. I don’t know what it’s going to be. I don’t really care what it’s going to be as long as I can get health insurance so that I can get out of this system and get a different primary doctor and hopefully get a referral to somebody else. That was my main aim at that point, and that’s what I did.

Michael Swartz:
You had to get a job to get insurance, to get out of the system, to get back into the system. Oh, my goodness.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
Totally crazy, right? You know, it’s like but I’ve had health insurance my entire life. But I can’t just, like, leave that system. And like, when you leave a job, you’re offered the opportunity to continue to pay for your insurance for a period of time, that doesn’t work that way when you’re in grad school.

Michael Swartz:
Not affordable.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
No, I mean, I think because it wasn’t considered creditable coverage, I don’t even think there was an option at that point. I think we looked into it and it wasn’t even, that was just not affordable. It was just like, we will deny you because of course then you’re like pre-existing condition. You know, she’s got leukemia. We don’t want her on our plan.

Michael Swartz:
Yeah, too much cost.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
Exactly, so that was my only route. And thankfully, I did find a position where I could get insurance and I wasn’t really quite healthy enough even to manage the working, it was a struggle, but that was my only way to get out.

Michael Swartz:
So you get the job and you get insurance. So where’d you go? You’re on this new insurance plan. We all know what it’s like trying to understand your insurance plan and know where to go. Take us through the process of picking up the.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
The pieces of.

Michael Swartz:
Yeah, where do I go next?

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
I can’t remember exactly how I navigated finding a new primary doctor. I think I did some research. Luckily, you know, I had lots of experience in knowing how to do research as I was studying for a Ph.D. So, you know, I looked into different doctors, and one that would accept my insurance and one that hopefully had some good reviews, found one, and I went to my initial appointment to establish care, and I said to her, you know, number one thing I want from you is a referral to a different hematologist. I cannot see this doctor anymore, please, you’ve got to help me, and she did. She said, yeah, I’ll give you a referral to somebody else. So she wrote me a referral to a new hematologist. And, you know, it was that easy at that point. And went to see the new hematologist, and I brought in a stack of records, paper records that must have been 2 to 3 inches thick worth of paper, my history of all the blood tests and everything I had from three years, and he starts looking through it and the initial appointment and he said, you know, Lyn, I don’t think this is chronic myelogenous leukemia.

Michael Swartz:
No.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
Yes, the very first appointment. You know, he asked why I was there. I said, this is the diagnosis I’ve been given. I don’t feel like I’m getting better, I’m getting worse. I’m unhealthy, I’m skinny, like a skeleton, like, what’s going on? This doesn’t make sense to me. I keep being told my lab test looks good. Then why do I feel like I’m moving my way towards death’s door? And, you know, he re-evaluated in that appointment and he said, I’m going to have to do more tests, of course, to confirm this. But he said, I don’t think it’s that. And he said, maybe it was a little later appointment, but I remember him saying, I don’t even know why they would have chosen this diagnosis, because this type of leukemia has never been correlated with the clotting off of the portal veins of the liver. The correct diagnosis has been in numerous people, but there’s never been anybody that he had ever seen where the two were correlated with the leukemia diagnosis.

Michael Swartz:
So, I’m like speechless right now.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
You can imagine.

Michael Swartz:
Yes, you can only imagine being in your shoes. So what was the diagnosis in the end?

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
A different blood disorder, something called polycythemia vera, and I had never heard of that before in my life. And for people who’ve never heard of that before, it just basically is a blood disorder where my body produces too much of the different blood cells, so too many white cells, too many red cells, and too many platelets.

Michael Swartz:
So and this is a couple, like three years, you said? So, three years. Do you have any idea like, and if you don’t want to answer this question, it’s fine, but do you know how much money, forgetting about like what your insurance covered, but like, did you ever see the bills on the three years of this misdiagnosis?

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
I didn’t see the bills, but I know that it had to be a lot of money. I actually, the particular drug that they had put me on for the CML, it was so expensive that I actually had to get through the pharmaceutical company, them to basically give it for free because it was $8,000 a month.

Michael Swartz:
And did you need that medication?

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
Ultimately, no, I didn’t ever need it. And the other thing that it actually made me do, because I had to be on a blood thinner, and this particular medication interacted with Coumadin, which Coumadin is a pretty inexpensive medication, but it was causing all sorts of interactions, I had to switch over and be on Lovenox, which is an injection, and that was $5000 a month. I had to get the pharmaceutical companies go on the free option where they would provide it because $13,000 a month for two medications, who can pay that?

Michael Swartz:
Yeah, and you’ve been told that these medications you need to live.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
Yeah, I mean, one, I was told was going to help treat the chronic myelogenous leukemia, and the other one was going to make sure I didn’t clot again.

Michael Swartz:
Wow, so all this craziness, it’s mind-blowing that this is legal, that the doctor could go through this and not really listen to you. So you go to this new doctor, you get this new diagnosis, and was the road a little easier from there?

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
Yes, definitely, once I was given the correct diagnosis. So I changed medications, was actually a medication I tolerated a lot better because the part of the story I didn’t mention is that medication I didn’t need had some really fun side effects of lots of nausea, especially. The correct medication, I didn’t notice really any side effects from it. So I had suffered for three years taking something that a lot of times I had trouble keeping my meals down because I was so nauseous.

Michael Swartz:
And I mean, what pops into my mind, I’m no lawyer, so I don’t know this, but was there any opportunity, like, was that malpractice? Like what just went on?

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
And that’s the other part of my story, is that I attempted to pursue medical malpractice case because for me, when I made that decision, it wasn’t even about like, I just want them to give me boatloads of money. I was like, I don’t want this to ever happen to another human being again. Like, nobody should go through what I just went through. If I can save somebody else from going through that, yeah, these people need to be held accountable. So I found a lawyer and we went through the whole process, and I was actually, went to court for two weeks. It was a two-week-long trial and it ended up in a hung jury.

Michael Swartz:
What?

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
Yes, and the only recourse you’re given in that moment, when it’s a hung jury is basically, you can start a new trial the very next day, and you have to pay all of your costs all over again, and you’re not guaranteed, you know, you’re not guaranteed anything is going to be different. You know, it could be another hung jury, it could wind up going in the other party’s favor, and so my parents and I at that point just decided we’re done. Like this is not, we can’t do this again. I couldn’t go through another two-week trial.

Michael Swartz:
Yeah, it’s just mind-blowing that that could even happen. So tell me, like, what, was it something during that process that led you to what you’re doing now? Tell us about what you just, so fed up with the healthcare system that it led you to looking at healing, not just what’s wrong with you, and we’ve got to treat that.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
Yeah, so kind of my journey with kind of alternative approaches to health started in that three-year period while I wasn’t really being helped by my doctors. I think probably about a year in was when I started to explore some other things because the first thing that I was dealing with was just, I was anxious all the time. Like my stress level was sky-high and I just didn’t know how to manage what was going on. And so I remembered, when I had been a teenager, I had gone for something called biofeedback therapy, when I had gotten horrible migraines, and I knew that biofeedback was also used for stress. And so I said, well, nobody seems to be helping me in this system. I at least need to learn how to deal with this and manage my stress. So that was kind of my first step in that direction, was to go see somebody who did biofeedback and who could teach me basically how to calm my own body down, how to regulate my nervous system. And then after that kind of another part of the whole trauma I went through in that three years was a year after my diagnosis, my best friend passed away very, very suddenly, and she actually died of a blood clot after having her tonsils removed, so it struck very close to home. We were 18 days apart that our birthdays. So it was like this wake-up call of like, holy crap, 26-year-olds can die, like that could have been me. And I sunk into a very deep, dark depression after her death. I think I had some survivor’s guilt. Like, why did I survive what I went through the year before she died? And so then I started to go to therapy because I just basically fell off this cliff of depression. So I started seeing a therapist, and that therapist actually recommended that I go to this class that was called Yoga for Healing. And when she first told me about this class, I was like, are you crazy? Like, because I had only ever seen yoga in a gym. So I’m like, you want me to go to a yoga class? Like, I have some days where it’s hard to, like, walk across the room and have energy. You know, I’m sick, right? And she goes, no, Lyn, it’s not what you’re picturing in your mind. Please just go try it once. It’s very different than what you’re thinking. And so I said, okay, I’ll trust you. And I went, and it was this class where we spent basically the whole time lying on the floor with, like blankets and pillows and props under us and, like, breathing and just being very gentle with our bodies. And that was another step in my process of, I think in that class, when I look back on it, what I learned was that my body wasn’t the enemy. I came from that place of, my body had betrayed me, when I got this horrible diagnosis to, oh, maybe my body is actually, has always been trying its hardest. I just, I needed support to help it because it was doing the best it could. And those two things were kind of the starting point of me transitioning into looking at other systems of health and healing. And after that I kind of became like the yes woman for things that came along, exactly, because I was like, well, these two things seem to be helping me. So then I started going to an acupuncturist. I’d never had acupuncture before. Somebody, I actually had been active in ballroom dancing in this time period at some level, like at certain points, it was very hard because I didn’t have a lot of energy and stamina, but it was like my mental health was supported by this. This coach that I had worked with, her husband, he said he did something called Reiki and I was like, what’s that? Like, I don’t know what that is. And he’s like, let me just do, I want to do a session for you. I think he knew I wasn’t well and it was powerful. Like I got up off the floor after he worked on me and I was just like, I looked at my face in the mirror and there was so much more energy anw life in me. It was like, What the heck is that? You know, so all of these things just kept coming my direction, and I kept saying yes. And I was like, these things actually are doing something for me, instead of taking this pill that’s like making me throw up after every meal that I eat when it’s near my meal time. So that was kind of the beginning. I just got so excited about all of these different things that helped me, and I started to get curious too, of like, what would it be like if when I start to feel better, because I started maybe to get a glimmer that there could be a light at the end of my tunnel instead of just like, this is just the way it’s going to be forever and I’m going to be sick and miserable for however many more years I have. I started to think, what would it be like to help other people with some of these amazing things that I’m experiencing when I’m healthy enough? I knew at that point I wasn’t ready to start training in any of this or taking on clients because it was like I just got to get better first.

Michael Swartz:
So when did you turn the corner? So you go through this experience. Your eyes are open both to the system and the craziness, and that it’s not always, the answer is not always just a pill. So your eyes are opening. When did you turn that corner from starting to feel at a point that you could really start bringing what you’ve experienced to other people?

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
It kind of started to unfold right around that time period that I left my grad program, I got the job. And then it’s funny, when I look back on that whole time period and why I went to grad school, like the me of now says, oh yeah, I made that decision because I was scared to be a grown-up and go out and get a job, and I loved history. So I thought, hey, grad school, you know, just keep going to school for a really long time and it’s less scary. And it wasn’t what I expected, I was miserable through that whole experience. Like it was just like from day one, I was like, what the heck am I doing here? I don’t belong. And as soon as I let go of that, because even before I got sick, I kept saying, I don’t really like this program, but I don’t know what I want to do with my life. And as soon as I said I’m leaving the program, I’m getting a job, I’m just going to get insurance. It was like everything started to get clear because I let go of the thing I had been clinging on to like it was a life raft when really it was probably what was making me sink further and further because I was making myself unhappy and telling myself lies that, oh, grad school isn’t supposed to be fun, it’s supposed to be miserable and hard, and, you know, you should struggle and be unhappy.

Michael Swartz:
I mean, that’s a big decision. And I think it’s so important for you to be passionate and enjoy what you’re doing in life. So you’re having that eye-opening experience and you’re making that decision. I mean, there’s a lot of people out there that feel chained and they’re stuck and they keep on going. Like, how did you push yourself to say, okay? Or was it a symptom of all the symptoms?

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
I think it was just finally getting to the point like I couldn’t do it anymore. Like, it’s just I, my spirit was so unhappy at that point. Like, it just felt like there was no joy in my life and things almost felt like they were worse in the program because I wasn’t really getting a lot of understanding from the advisors who I was working with. It was just like, for example, when my friend died, they were sympathetic at first, and then it was kind of like, okay, well, aren’t you over that already? Like, get back to being productive again. Like, start working on these things you need to do. And it was like, do you realize like how that shook me to the core? It was just, I saw the system, that system for what it was. And I was like, how am I going to live the rest of my life in this world of academia where it seems like all these people that I’m dealing with are really dysfunctional and not the kind of people I want to be surrounded by?

Michael Swartz:
You’re getting hit by two systems. Academic system, don’t get me started with that with all the, I mean, I have tens of thousands of dollars worth of debt and I didn’t even go to graduate school. And then the healthcare system, which is creating so much debt, all at the same time.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
Yes, yeah, I mean, I was fortunate, for me with grad school, I didn’t end up with a crazy amount of student debt. But yeah, it’s crazy how much debt so many people are in after going to school. It was such a broken system too, to feel like, oh, six weeks after somebody who was basically I felt like she was my sister, you know, I was an only child, and we were very close, like, oh, aren’t you back to normal yet? What’s wrong with you?

Michael Swartz:
No empathy.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
No, no, no empathy at all. It was like just, okay, well, turn that part of you off and just get back to doing these tasks that we need you to do.

Michael Swartz:
Keep on working.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
Which is a bigger symptom of our society in general. I mean, there is a lot of that in the corporate world too. It’s like no understanding for people going through what they go through.

Michael Swartz:
I think that’s what’s so amazing about what you’re doing, that it seems like you take in these multiple life experiences that you’ve had and you’ve taken it and put it all together and really look at, it’s not about this is your problem and this is how you get better, but each person is different, and your eyes were open to new ways of treating and all the craziness you went through, and I think it’s incredible you bringing this to other people.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
Thank you, yeah, I think it’s so important that we start to see the systems that we have don’t always serve us and our bodies are amazing. I think that’s what I marvel at every day, is our bodies are truly amazing, but the medical system doesn’t necessarily see it that way. And when we start to get curious about, like, why? Like, why is this happening for this person? Why are they having this particular issue rather than, oh, let’s just slap a diagnosis on it and then figure out the prescription and send them on their way? The why is so much more important, of, you know what is the body trying to communicate by this particular symptom or problem that the person is experiencing?

Michael Swartz:
So and I think that kind of leads into your book, it’s called You Are Not Your Diagnosis, tell us a little bit about that. Like when you work with new clients, how do you guide them through? Like that book, the insight, how do you look at things?

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
I mean, I look at our bodies as always trying to heal. And I, it doesn’t matter if someone comes to me and says, this is the medical diagnosis I was given, or if they say, I don’t know what’s going on, like I have problems with my digestive system or these problems with X, Y, or Z, the diagnosis really doesn’t matter, like that’s just a label. And sometimes the label can be useful and oftentimes it has its downsides too. As my story shows, it can be wrong too, it’s not always correct. So I look at helping the person explore what is going on, what the imbalances are in their bodies, and what does the body need to restore health. And a lot of times it’s giving people tools and resources to help them deal with the stress in their life and deal with traumas that they may have experienced, and process, and integrate, and release the trauma, because what we don’t heal also follows us in our health. So you could have had something happen when you were five years old and you never made sense of it, or processed it, and it’s going to affect your health later in life.

Michael Swartz:
Everything is so interconnected. I mean, there’s so many studies on how mental health is connected to medical costs, and dental health is connected to medical costs, like all of these things are interconnected. And I think it’s the way you look at things, it’s powerful when you think of healing as a whole and not just if this is what you have, then that is what you need.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
Right, that’s not that kind of a cookie-cutter formula. I always say, take, for example, just a simple symptom, like a headache. You know, there could be like dozens of reasons why someone has a headache. Could be as simple as they’re chronically dehydrated, like they barely drink any water. It could be more emotional. You know, it could be there’s actually something like a tumor in their brain. There’s so many reasons.

Michael Swartz:
If you ask Google, it will be the worst-case scenario and you’ll be freaking yourself out and thinking you’re on your deathbed.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
Exactly, yeah.

Michael Swartz:
You do not want to put headache in Google, I tell you that much because I’ve done that. God, I’ve had this headache for so long. You go on Google because you think it’s the right move and next thing you know you’re just scared and you don’t want to go see the doctor, so don’t use Google.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
Right, exactly, exactly, because there are so many other things that could be. So my work with people is to be curious. Our bodies don’t have words to talk to us. I think sometimes it would be far more convenient for us if they did, if we could say exactly why we’re having the pain or the symptom. But I’m there to help people figure out what the symptom really is communicating, and when we figure that out, then that’s where we can really figure out how to resolve it as well.

Michael Swartz:
It’s awesome. So your experience, with healthcare, with academia, with now, with what you do and how you help people, based off of your experience, like what type of insight can you give to the listeners in terms of navigating the healthcare system, not running into a problem? You know, everybody’s different, but what do you do if your doctor tells you something, and what is your insight from that experience, if you could go back in time?

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
I think the biggest insight is, demand, if you feel like you need a second opinion or a third opinion, like keep demanding it. And I think if I hadn’t have been 25 and kind of unsure of myself in the world, I probably would have pushed that doctor a little bit harder, that primary doctor who kept saying, no, no, trust me, he’s the best. I would have just said, look, I need you to give me a referral, I cannot keep seeing this doctor. So you have to sometimes get really fierce and be your own advocate. And potentially, if you struggle with that, ask a friend or a family member to come support you in that appointment and just say, this is my right. Like, I feel like something is off here and I need answers. Don’t let anybody tell you that you don’t have that right, question, or to ask for a second opinion or a third opinion.

Michael Swartz:
Well, I think too, like with what you’re saying, don’t be scared that they’re the doctor either like, yeah, it’s yeah, they went to medical school, but you know what you’re feeling more than the doctor knows what you’re feeling.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
100%, you’re the one that lives in your body 24/7. And any doctor that doesn’t want to take account of that and take that into consideration when you share that, I always say, run for the hills. You know, I had an endocrinologist a few years ago and I had to see her because my other endocrinologist moved to Kaiser and I wasn’t in the Kaiser system. So you know, you can’t see Kaiser doctor if you don’t have Kaiser insurance. So I start seeing this other endocrinologist, and she had tested my thyroid labs and she said, oh, this looks too high, we need to reduce your thyroid medication. So we did, and as soon as, not a couple of weeks in, I started just getting very, very exhausted and I would have to take a nap. And I was like, this is not normal for me. Like, you know, I’m normally, rarely, you know, everybody takes a nap here and there, but I’m not like, every day, a need-to-lay-down-and-take-a-nap person. And so I told her that, and then she ran the labs again and she said, well, it’s still too high, I want to lower it again. And I said, no, I cannot live my life with you trying to decrease this and me taking a nap every day. I was in my thirties at that point. I was like, this is not normal. And she was just dismissing me and saying it was like this mere coincidence that I started needing naps when she decreased my thyroid medicine and I never went back and saw that doctor again. She discounted my personal lived experience even when I tried to explain it very clearly to her. It’s like, you don’t have a right to be part of my healthcare team. If you get dismissed in that way, find somebody else.

Michael Swartz:
I think it’s so important, and you’ve experienced more than anybody else, but you have a doctor, a care team that takes the time to really understand what you’re feeling, and on the other side of it, that you have that trust, because that breakdown of trust is not going to help you get better.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
No, it isn’t. Looking back on that experience with the first hematologist, it’s like, I think our relationship was doomed because of that experience with the bone marrow biopsy. It was like, how am I supposed to have trust for somebody that basically just reassured me, oh, you’re just going to feel some pressure? And then it was so torturous that he had to stop.

Michael Swartz:
Yeah, that could have been a red flag.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
Yeah, and looking back on it, you know, I knew, in my gut, I was like, I don’t really want to go see this guy, because in my mind he was like the man who tortured me. But at that point, I didn’t really know enough to have said, I really think this isn’t the best person for me to see. Like we got off on this bad foot in the hospital, I think maybe it’s just better I find somebody else. And, I don’t know, maybe in his experience too, like he was uncomfortable with me, because maybe he’d never had that experience of someone screaming like I screamed.

Michael Swartz:
It’s definitely a crazy system that we’re in. And I think that’s why it’s so powerful what you are promoting, which is like, be your own advocate, be your own navigator, ask for help, find resources. For people that are going through their healthcare journey and they’re confused, or they think they need a second opinion, or they just need help, what resources are there? Like, are they able to come to you as a resource?

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
Yeah, I mean, I’ve definitely helped some of my clients kind of navigate through that system, give them encouragement and words of wisdom. And a lot of my work too, is more about just helping people who don’t just want the diagnosis and the pill. It’s like, I really want to resolve the issue. So I would say part of it is, find what works to support you. If that’s something that I can help support you, great. If not, find other people who can be allies in your journey and get curious. Like you said, when you read my bio, just because someone tells you this is chronic, it’s incurable, you know, this is all we can do for you. I don’t see that, with people, I see people healing. Things like autoimmune disease that the medical system would lead you to believe are permanent, and you’re just going to need this medication forever, and we’ll manage your symptoms, people can heal.

Michael Swartz:
Yeah, if they heal, they don’t make money, so that’s a problem for them.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
Yeah, exactly, that’s part of the broken nature of the system, right? That’s, the money comes from writing the prescriptions and keeping people sick. And I’m much more passionate about empowering people, and I don’t necessarily want my clients to see me for the rest of their lives. I want them to be healthy and be able to just go on with their lives. And if they need a little bit of a tune-up here and there, great, but it’s not meant to be disempowering. It’s meant to just help you get better.

Michael Swartz:
So if any of the listeners are interested in what you do, maybe they want to, most people want, like if they’re, have, if they’re sick, if there’s something wrong, people want to heal. If they’re looking to heal, or maybe they’re interested in some new ways of treating, just like you started becoming curious and trying out these new things, where can they find you?

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
Yeah, the best way to find me is through my website, and that’s HeartFireHealingLLC.com, and you can book a free consultation on there. You can read more about the different services I offer. There’s lots of free resources, other podcasts I’ve been on as well. So poke around on the site and find what you need or reach out. And I love to speak to people and consult calls. It’s really fun to just be of service that way and see if I can help someone.

Michael Swartz:
That’s awesome, and last thing, is there anything you want to leave the listeners with?

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
I think just always remember to be your best advocate for yourself. As you pointed out, don’t be afraid to question the doctors. I think the reminder I always like to think of is, they put their pant legs on one leg at a time, just like everybody else, you know, and they make mistakes, as you’ve heard through my story, just like everybody else. So be an advocate for yourself and always believe, I believe in the incredible power of our minds. So what you tell yourself about your health is going to tremendously affect your health, both for the positive or for the negative. So really examining what do you want to believe about what’s possible for your health?

Michael Swartz:
I think that’s incredible insight. Well, Lyn, I really appreciate you coming on and speaking to myself and the listeners. Really appreciate it.

Lyn Delmastro-Thomson:
My pleasure, thank you for having me.

Michael Swartz:
And thanks, everybody, for joining today. And I’ll see you next week.

Michael Swartz:
Hey listeners, thanks for tuning in to another episode of Everyone Hates Healthcare. If you have a healthcare story, we want to hear it. All you got to do is shoot me an email with My Healthcare Story in the subject line to MyStory@HealthKarma.org. Also, check out all the episode notes, resources, and more ways you can take control of your healthcare. All you got to do is just visit HealthKarma.org/Podcast. While you’re on there, help us out, don’t forget to drop us a rating, a review, and share it with all your family and friends. Can’t wait to see you next week.

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