: [00:00:01] Welcome to the Outcomes Rocket podcast where we inspire collaborative thinking, improved outcomes and business success with today’s most successful and inspiring healthcare leaders and influencers. And now your host, Saul Maquez
Saul Marquez: [00:00:19] Outcomes rocket listeners welcome back once again to the outcomes rocket where we chat with today’s most successful and inspiring healthcare leaders. I really want to thank you for tuning in and invite you to go to outcomesrocket.health/reviews where you could leave a rating and review for today’s podcast on Apple podcasts. Let us know what you think. We love hearing from our listeners. So without further ado I want to introduce our outstanding guest. Her name is Jocelyn Cowie. She’s a renowned medical massage therapist with an outstanding testimonials. Hundreds of pro athletes including Canucks alumni and GFI team qualifiers for National Baseball Congress World Series in Wichita Kansas. She’s published theses and abstracts three of them and the Canadian painters Society International Association for the Study of Pain. The Fasha 3 Congress Canadian government grants she’s she has an outstanding background and has done so much in the space of medical massage therapy. She’s also an entrepreneur and she’s done plenty in this space. So what I wanted to do is open up the microphone to Jocelyn to up that introduction. It’s also a little bit more about herself and then we could dive into the show Jocelyn, and welcome to the podcast.
Jocelyn Cowie: [00:01:36] Thank you so very much. Very kind of you to introduce me and thank you for having me on your show. Medical massage is an interesting healing art. I started in 1985 graduating from the West Coast college and saw John Michael and going to the training program which to find out how my modality actually worked because I started doing massage as a child into every mom dad you know got my back rub my shoulders. You know I got married at a young age my husband was a driver and massages every day and nursing aide and learn some basic massage and then I could work with my mom with her rheumatoid arthritis she was a nurse. Is he an archaeologist anymore she started with reflexology course. I could tell my mom amazing results and that led me to want to understand this Healing Heart. And when I graduated from the West Coast college massage I started teaching massage to people realized diseases out of that thesis in 1993 realized tension and started working on patenting medical device to measure pain.
Saul Marquez: [00:02:36] That’s very interesting.
Saul Marquez: [00:02:37] And so Jason we had a chance to connect that the Health 2.0 meeting and you can walk us through how that worked then and so excited to get through how the device works as well on the podcast. Thanks for walking us through that story. You know we’ll got you in the medicine. Sounds like you were you were first introduced by just being able to help others at home. And then it just expanded from there so you give an example to the listeners of how you and your company are helping improve outcomes.
Jocelyn Cowie: [00:03:08] That is a more complicated question and outcomes are ofcourse with applied AI right now. You can collect data from sensors that are measuring so many things as wearables right now that I know there’s nobody who is really measuring what we’re trying to measure which is areas where people actually feel the pain in MRIs can look at here through brain scans and see scattered wavelengths that indicate that there’s something going on with the nervous system is getting a signal and actually getting to the point of pain is what we’re trying to do is get to where pain starts which is when we but the inflammatory responses.
Saul Marquez: [00:03:48] And you’re identifying these aimpoint areas and what happens after you identify them.
Jocelyn Cowie: [00:03:52] You collect that data and humanity charter and you show the results that apply therapy to the inflammatory responses that are causing the pain. So instead of painting the subjective reality that people are expressing and everybody’s trying to interpret on a scale at once and cause of how people what gender they are what age they are what nationality they are and how it’s expressed or houses interpreted is subjective right now as to people on a scale of 1 to 10 really is not fair to do that if he were trying to resolve some of these pain or the patients themselves is trying to be believed and the Haitian people are dying every day from the prescribed medication or know overdose epidemic is a huge problem right now. We believe we can solve that problem by. First while we have a more balanced that works we can improve that modality. Let’s get evidence based outcomes by having real tools measured treat that cost show outcomes P therapies and over time supply that gap to insurance companies that they want to get involved in paying the people who buy painterly remedies or reimbursement that right now are moving into other modalities actually cause disease and sickness like opiates and impairment. I mean there’s a time and place. Don’t get me wrong totally because I may and should be able to access medications they need to resolve their pain. And I’m not an anti anti inflammatory just think long term use has no side effects that the FDA has recognized and certainly the U.S. government is really upset right now with the opiate crisis. Trump is putting money into it too as well. So I mean we know there’s a serious problem here.
Saul Marquez: [00:05:40] Absolutely Josslyn and thanks for walking us through that. You know it sounds like you’re bringing the science to physical therapy in a way that you’ll be able to quantify the pain you’ll be able to quantify how much pain has been alleviated and in turn be able to make it a more viable option compared to the go to just kind of knee jerk reaction to opiates or anything like that. And I think it’s really cool that you’re approaching this and you’re you’re taking this head on. Can you give an example to listeners of how you’ve been able to create results already.
Jocelyn Cowie: [00:06:15] We have been doing mostly literature reviews on different ways that we could measure inflammatory responses. And through those literature reviews trying to prototype devices test those devices and scientific studies and revise the design. Of the device in order to actually get to a point where we have a viable product. When I started I certainly had no idea when I was getting myself into. I mean the good and bad news is that the good news is is that there is a solution to measure inflammation. Yes bad news is is hiring engineers are very expensive company. It’s very onerous and certainly stretches my area of expertise which is really in the manual therapy of spine pain really says a therapist which is a great job and is a thrilling occupation. Helping people who are suffering every day is passionate. I never cease to be tired. I never feel tired from what I do. I just help people every day and he was so grateful and appreciative and I’m so fortunate to have found the right passion and get to help people every day. So starting a company that is a different type of animal yeah not it not my area of expertise advice I certainly done lots of field camps and. The a.a program in the Silicon Valley and I did the Florida program in Anaheim and I’ve done it Indian consulate missions in Minneapolis and yes so I mean there are support out there. I just wish that sometimes they had me what the tale was doing. Sometimes I wish that my door was knocked down and you have an answer to a problem like this who might give it to the world. That’s like wow you’re trying to push through the door when the door should be actually being knocked out. So that would be sort of my point home reality is that. The door should be knocked down. I shouldn’t have to be knocking.
Saul Marquez: [00:08:03] Yeah you know Jesson and that’s a great point that you bring up because there’s a lot of very interesting innovation happening in health care and it is the cycles to the will are long and arduous and expensive and often times entrepreneurs will find themselves in these areas where it’s just like how do I get traction with this equipment. Like people should be running in just large numbers of people who should be coming to my door to get this and you get it out there and nobody shows up.
Jocelyn Cowie: [00:08:35] Well actually it’s not out there yet. So we’re not really worried about people you know actually knocking down our doors. Yeah we haven’t done a Kickstarter or any crowdfunding campaign. I mean hopefully that’s when those doors will start knocking. I mean getting it out there and the public has not been our goal. Our goal is to get the research and development down just to backtrack what he said about the FDA. You don’t actually see any problems with the FDA or see any problems. And we’re working with FDA specialist firms we understand. I can’t hear that. So we’re really not worried about you I really actually think what the diocese is protect the public and make sure that people that really are doing. I wouldn’t want her. To think that our price is. Something that is just. Plain and I wouldn’t make the claim that ISIS is measuring pain until I get scientific studies to identify that I would right now say that our device groups are not objective measures through multiple sensors that can be used to look at the inflammatory responses which we now process. So if we could look at the inflammation of the body as a pain cause Aljaz and were able to have measures that we could prevent scientific literature. Mary app with patient subjective Cecil as opposed to say this device never pain right going into the market as a claim that would be there in fact are public.
Saul Marquez: [00:09:56] No I totally get it and I agree. Jocelyn. It’s the FDA definitely is a very necessary body regulatory body and I also agree that it’s there to help the public so definitely not not suggesting.
Jocelyn Cowie: [00:10:08] No I don’t think you were I guess not correcting that. You know yes for drugs it is an onerous process and I I definitely have a lot of empathy. Drug companies they didn’t have patents they didn’t have moratoriums on their ideas generics could come along very quickly and put money into things that end up getting your product that you can make money back to the RNC put into it. And I know they spend millions and millions of dollars and. I have a lot of empathy for large drug companies Chinese products market everybody’s trying to do what they do in their area of expertise. For sure
Saul Marquez: [00:10:42] For sure. Decim so so you’re in the process of your of your research and you are in the middle of getting some potentially NIH grants going through. You know it’s exciting times you guys are getting all your validation done. Can you give us an area right now that you’re excited about that you’re working with in your research.
Jocelyn Cowie: [00:11:02] I think it’s really exciting that the NIH is offering Pratte right now for a device to measure pain. I mean that is just so exciting. So we’ve been very busy over the last few weeks trying to become an US entity succeeded in doing that. Thank you. People’s view is that advertising anyway it was very fast and easy and dance numbers and Emirates are starting with all the government agencies certainly wish I had somebody holding my hand walking me through at that time or trying your very best to succeed.
Saul Marquez: [00:11:32] That’s awesome. Definitely wish you guys the best during that process and hope that you score that grant so you can move this forward. So Jocelyn let’s pretend you and I are building a medical leadership course. What it takes to be successful in medicine. The 101 or the ABC of Jocelyn Cowie I’d like to write a syllabus for the listeners and it’s for question lightning round session. We’ll follow that by a book that you recommend to them you ready.
Jocelyn Cowie: [00:11:59] Totally. So look you’ve got. Give it a shout here. I certainly have some interesting ideas about education. So
Saul Marquez: [00:12:05] All right let’s do it. So what would you say. Jocelyn is the best way to improve healthcare outcomes.
Jocelyn Cowie: [00:12:11] I would say applying it to data and looking at outcomes that can have analytics applied to the data that can be collected from all various answers that are coming into the market Rabel space is really exciting collecting data and showing data and then making it simple and easy for users to interface with that data. I don’t think users want to have. That. I think it’s more sending out a to rehash that and then there was that trash collection place can send an ambulance or send. A care provider to honor a family member to help with an elderly patient who might want to stay in their home but. Has some early dementia or Alzheimer’s and need to be monitored not necessarily children living in that environment.
Saul Marquez: [00:12:58] What’s the biggest mistake or pitfall to avoid.
Jocelyn Cowie: [00:13:01] I think, thinking that is easy and thinking that it’s going to be overnight. A lot of hard work. I wouldn’t recommend it with the weak of Heart or spirit or mind.
Saul Marquez: [00:13:16] Absolutely. How do you stay relevant as an organization. Despite constant change.
Jocelyn Cowie: [00:13:21] Keep up with it. Know what’s going on the market. Go to Congress is see what other people are doing. Keep your fingers on the pulse. It’s a moving target and it’s moving fast and you don’t know what’s happening. We’re not build a device that is going to be perfect and there.
Saul Marquez: [00:13:35] What is one area of focus that should drive everything else in your organization.
Jocelyn Cowie: [00:13:39] Think making sure that the research and development team is doing what they need to do in a manner that will make sure that you are compliant making sure that you’re keeping them happy sad and your job as a CEO of a startup company is to make sure you’ve got money to pay them. And that’s a tough job. Think that being a female, being in the entrepreneurial space living in a small town. Very difficult I think you know in the Silicon Valley. I was a male CEO with a Ph.D.. Hi my name would be at ten thousand times easier. So I think that those are definitely barriers. But in the meantime you know if you want to keep your share value strong not selling shares ahead of time when you don’t really need the money. So living on a shoestring can actually make getting most of your money instead of the extravagance. I find If I have money I’m going to spend that. And sometimes you spend money prematurely like buying a projector for example was five thousand dollars. It didn’t work. They said it was manufacturing. As I said Now your circuit boards are made in China. They’re not following ISO procedures. Semi replacement the replacement doesn’t hurt. By the time I get my replacement the third replacement you’re. Five thousand dollars in the hole and you never get to use it because now we’re doing we’re plugging our PCs into a big screen TV and that we’re sitting on your table not to the projector but to the screen. So I think things change and buy ahead time that ends up being dysfunctional I would recommend that really on a shoestring does help you to be more budgetary and the constraining in your choices of purchasing decisions. Also keep your share of Alua. So yeah I think that That’s advantageous in a way.
Saul Marquez: [00:15:22] Got it just and what book would you recommend to our listeners.
Jocelyn Cowie: [00:15:25] What is it called The Creative Destruction of Medicine that’s getting a little old now that Chasseur only air. Koppel is a leader. Don’t know. Daniel craft has written any books. He’s not a in and certainly yet sappin station starts talking about what’s going on. You’re going to have a hard time unless you’re really aware of yourself what’s going on Keeping Up with the dynamic changing right now in healthcare. Expedential is the big word singular the accidental medicines. It’s I mean things are now very inexpensive to and there he can get onto the market very inexpensively. We’re looking at 20 years ago with this product across from a thousand dollars to buy. We’re looking at 150 Product and while also 100000. That is a huge exponential. Now something as all of the things even more things that we ever since 20 years ago.
Saul Marquez: [00:16:18] For sure Josslyn and listeners if you wanted to get an access to any of the books that Jason mentioned and links to her company and things like that just go to outcomesrocket.health/cowie that c o w i e that’s Jocelyn’s last name you’ll be able to find the show notes as well as links to any of the resources provided. Jocelyn before we conclude I would love for you to just share a closing thought with the listeners. And then the best place where they could get a hold.
Jocelyn Cowie: [00:16:45] So my nickname. I don’t like it a lot but it kind of sticks in first place so listeners I want to remember me they can think of Jocelyn Cowie, Awie Cowie It’s like it just meant got to see from Cali and you have it kind of sense. So. Are my my Krass directly is email@example.com. Or you can also timely at the firstname.lastname@example.org that’s a Canadian provider, so that’s my 2 email addresses.
Saul Marquez: [00:17:23] Wonderful and so what would your closing thought be. The listeners.
Jocelyn Cowie: [00:17:27] Keep your spirits up tracking with what to do with your life. Keep your dreams alive. Don’t let the fire burn out.
Saul Marquez: [00:17:35] Love it. Jocelyn, this has been great. Really appreciate you taking the time to walk us through your thoughts and the project that you currently have in hand. We we wish you the best in your research we hope you get this NIH grant. And looking forward to keeping in touch with you.
Jocelyn Cowie: [00:17:52] Thank you so much, Saul.
: [00:17:53] Thanks for listening to the Outcomes Rocket podcast. Be sure to visit us on the web at www.outcomesrocket.com for the show notes, resources, inspiration and so much more.
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