Outcomes Rocket Podcast_Andy Bonner: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.
Saul Marquez:
Hey, everybody! It’s Saul Marquez with the Outcomes Rocket. I want to welcome you back to another episode on the Rocket. Today, I have the privilege of hosting Andy Bonner on the podcast. He’s the co-founder, president, and CEO of Healthcare2U. He’s dedicated to improving quality and accessibility of affordable healthcare and wellness initiatives by developing innovative services and cost structures that are challenging the traditional models of how programs are purchased and consumed today. A lot of employers out here are struggling with the cost of care, and so are consumers. Andy’s passion for solving some of these healthcare challenges facing Americans today really stems from a successful battle with cancer he had in 2006. He didn’t have a primary care physician at that time, and he went to several urgent clinics. And look, I’m going to have him tell the story because he’s one of the lucky survivors, and from that pain, he created Healthcare2U, which we’re going to be digging into. Andy, I’m excited that you’re joined with us today and excited to share your story on the podcast.
Andy Bonner:
Thanks, Saul. Appreciate you having us.
Saul Marquez:
Absolutely. So finish the story for us. You tell us about your journey. I want to hear about it.
Andy Bonner:
I appreciate that. I guess let me start by saying that I spent 30 some-odd years prior to building Healthcare2U in what’s called, referred to as the business process outsourcing world. So my career started with Xerox Corporation, then I started, then I went to Kinko’s Corporation, Icon Corporation, a lot of equipment manufacturers and BPO services. So essentially, what that means is that we would go into large organizations, give you a couple of tidbits like British Petroleum, McDonald’s Corporation, Intel Corporation, and we would study them internally, their internal processes of how they handle print: everything from equipment to human resources to the networks and so forth. And our job was to really figure out how to save these companies large amounts of money by either outsourcing them to us and we run them on a single invoice. So that’s been my background for 30-plus years prior to me contracting cancer. And like you said in the intro, I did not have a primary care physician, I was relatively young and healthy. I went to urgent care the 1 or 2 times a year I got sick depending on what part of the country I was in at the time, because I ran a national sales organization, and they would give me my meds, and off I would go. And, which is the case for a lot of Americans today, especially today, because there’s limited access to primary care physicians, and especially the younger generation, they just don’t go, there’s other ways to do it. So that led to a spot on my tongue that led me going into urgent care depending on where I was at the time, they would give me my meds, I would go do it, follow their scripts religiously, and then two weeks later would go to some other urgent care and then some other urgent care. And that transpired over an 8 to 9 month period of time, multiple times being misdiagnosed, until they finally told me to go see a dentist because I was biting my tongue at night place. I like to go … life as a dentist chair. I went to go see a dentist. He looked at it and said, Just doesn’t look right to me. You need to go see a friend of mine who’s a maxilloplasty surgeon in San Antonio, which is where I lived at the time. I go see him, he immediately diagnoses it, says, Wrong place, wrong spot, your tongue is coming out. When do you want to come out, urgent? So we do the surgery, and then lo and behold, he says, Good news is we got it, bad news is you got cancer. That led to five years at MD Anderson. I was lucky.
Saul Marquez:
So, just to, Andy, just to clarify, so the spot on your tongue, that was not the cancer. That was something different.
Andy Bonner:
No, no, that was a cancer.
Saul Marquez:
Oh, okay it was.
Andy Bonner:
Yeah, it was a cancer, but it’s like a canker sore, like a little canker sore that wouldn’t go away. It didn’t hurt. Just, it was there. And you know, when I, and of course, at the time, while I had the wherewithal to go anywhere I needed to go healthcare-wise, I just didn’t know how to navigate the healthcare system.
Saul Marquez:
Sure.
Andy Bonner:
Quite frankly, I didn’t know a whole lot about it because I’d really never engaged it before. And that’s really, I think, part of the story that a lot of Americans, when I look at myself, and I go, it may have the wherewithal that might be a greater opportunity than most. It’s the educational component, the understanding of the complex system of healthcare that really is what is driving a lot of our issues today that we deal with. So, in my case, prime example, you can go to one urgent care on one corner of the street and the next day go to the one across the street. They can’t talk to each other; they can’t share clinical notes because of HIPAA. You have to carry all your information with you. and in my case, I was doing it all over the country. And what I did not understand at the time, and I slowly educated myself, was that the people that I was seeing, they had a lab coat on, and like most Americans, we give them complete deference and say, Whatever you tell me to do, I’m going to do. It’s hard to read the scribble on lab coat and determine what the educational level is of that person or the skill level. And in healthcare today, especially in the urgent care environment, you’re seeing extenders. So you’re not seeing board-certified family care physicians or internists and so forth who have that lengthy educational process. So that was the case for me as well. And so all that compiled in my case to a misdiagnosis multiple times until I was properly diagnosed. And luckily, because it was stage 1 NO, I didn’t have to have radiation, didn’t have to have chemotherapy, but I did have to go back over a five-year period of time and go back to MD Anderson to ensure that it hadn’t popped up someplace else or re-emerges, and it takes about five years before they’ll tell you that you’re probably cancer-free from that particular cancer. So it was during those visits back to MD Anderson, and as I tell the story, lots of times, anybody who’s ever had cancer immediately understands this, and that is you relive the entire episode every time you go back. You go to a dark place prior to you going back, you think that the cancer has spread, you’re almost certain of it, and you’re preparing yourself for a bad outcome or a bad visit. Every time you go back to MD Anderson, they’re going to catch it someplace else. And so you do that, you build up, you detach from your family, you go to dark spaces, you think it’s all over you, and then all of a sudden you do your test at MD Anderson the next day you meet with your doc and then the doc goes, All clear, see you in three months, or see in six months, or whatever. And you just have this rush of emotion that goes over you, and it’s like this release, but prior to that, you’re going through all this motion, so I had to relive it. And at first, it’s four times a year, it’s every quarter for the first two years. And so every time I would replay it in my mind, I kept asking, why did this happen? Why did this happen? Why is this happening? And then the more I ask why, the inquisitive nature in my background took over, and I would want to solve. So it wasn’t just why, but it was how can I fix? And so I looked at what happened to me as a big jigsaw puzzle, and I looked at it going, okay, maybe I can solve this problem. And the more, you know, after 2 or 3 years, I convinced myself that not only did I want to be involved, I wanted to really try to attack this problem and see if I could help other people not have to go through what I went through. So that was the emphasis of me starting Healthcare2U. It was a complete career change, but it was looking through healthcare, through the eyes of a business process outsourcing slant, then through the eyes of a doctor. I knew nothing about healthcare, I knew nothing about insurance. I was walking in completely green, but I was looking at it through a solving lens, How can I solve, versus being in the business? And I think that’s what’s led to our success, is that for me, the desire has never been how much money I could make, or if I’m a doctor or how much free time I can recoup by practicing in this modality, it’s always about how can I save people money and how can I improve access to the people that need it the most to have the least ability to afford it? And so, being raised on the Texas-Mexican border down south Texas, it was always a passion of mine to bring the solution there first. So, I started it in San Antonio, I immediately moved it down to the Rio Grande Valley. I saw six business partners down in the Rio Grande Valley, the doctors and I moved down there. And the reason why I did that is because the poverty level in the valley is very low, and I wanted to bring an option that people could afford, even minimum wage people, being able to give them the ability to see a doctor, and because of the high rates of diabetes in Texas, being able to treat those conditions at a very affordable rate that anybody can afford. That’s the passion behind it.
Saul Marquez:
I love it. And thanks for sharing your story, Andy. It’s a very real experience for a lot of Americans. And still, people struggle to get the care that they need. And a lot of Americans are uninsured, and maybe it’s where you live, maybe you’re in an urban or a rural location, or it’s a socioeconomic thing. There’s a lot of barriers to it. So talk to us about Healthcare2U and what types of solutions you’re providing to help for some of the gaps in care.
Andy Bonner:
Sure, like I mentioned before, the mission is really to provide healthcare to those who need it the most, who can least afford it. So it’s really, we’ve coined a phrase here at Healthcare2U: it’s almost like concierge medicine for the 99 percenters. I’m not trying to solve healthcare for the rich; now, they’ve had solutions time and millennia, but the folks who are making minimum wage, who are trying to figure out how to put food on their table, those are folks who are really deciding between feeding their family or going and getting their diabetes checkup this month or something like that. So that’s really, where we’re focused on is affordable, accessible quality care. So everything starts with an interaction with what’s called a patient advocacy line. So think about when you go to a doctor’s office, and you walk in the doctor’s office, you go to the plate glass window, you open it, you give them your insurance card. If you have it, they close the window, give you a stack of papers to fill out. You’re sitting in the lobby, you fill out the papers. Behind the glass, they’re checking on your insurance, they’re checking on whether you’re current, and they’re checking on your copays and what’s included and whatever type of plan that you have. Then the door opens up and they say, come back to the exam room. You go back to the exam room, a person walks in, does your blood pressure, does all that. That’s generally what’s referred to as an MA in the physician’s world. And they’re doing the diagnosis for you because the doctor only gets paid to spend a certain amount of time with you and the fee for service world.
Saul Marquez:
Right.
Andy Bonner:
So what we’ve done is we’ve taken that first interaction in the exam room all the way back to when you first entered the doctor’s office, and we’ve taken that and we’ve put it in a call center environment here in Austin, Texas. We’ve manned that call center with medical assistants, the same folks who come into the exam room. They’re all bilingual, and essentially what they’re doing is you’re, every time you need care, you call one number or you press an app and that connects you to our call center, and very quickly, through just a couple of pieces of information, they have all of your information on the screen to serve you. So they’ve got everything from who you are, your demographics, your age, where you live, your children, if you have children on the plan, what the plan is, all your medical history, information. Everything is there in a custom database that we’ve created. So then they start to triage you based on the triage of what your complaint is, then they give you options. Hey, that’s something that could be handled over the phone. Do you want somebody? Do you want a doctor to get on the line real quick? Tend to your needs, call in a prescription for you, there’s zero out-of-pocket cost to you, or you could go see a doctor, we have you set up with X, Y, Z. Doctor, if you’d like to do that, it costs you $10. Which would you like? And Saul, you say, You know what? I’d like to go see the doctor. Great, now hold on the phone for a second. We actually make the appointments for you. We do everything for you. You never call a doctor’s office. So everything’s set up for you, you go on your way to doctor’s office, you pay a $10 visit fee, you see the doctor, he takes care of you, and off you go. So that’s the experience. It’s more of a white glove, hold your hand, get you to the right spot that you need to go to for the complaint that you’re calling about. But the plan itself, what it includes is unlimited access to board, certified primary care or internal medicine physicians in every state we have. We’re a national organization.
Saul Marquez:
And is this virtual?
Andy Bonner:
No, this is in-person.
Saul Marquez:
In-person, okay.
Andy Bonner:
So we have, the program is unlimited direct primary care, in-person visits for $10, unlimited chronic disease management for 13 different chronic diseases, including hypertension, diabetes, GERD, gout, and so forth. $10 every time you go, wrap everything in a 24-over-seven wrapper. So access to virtual care after hours and during the day and on weekends. And then most importantly is it has a smorgasbord of solutions that allows you to get CT X-rays, MRIs, imaging services at a discount, prescriptions at a discount, so a basket of discounted items.
Saul Marquez:
Diagnostics at a discount maybe?
Andy Bonner:
Yep. And we include an annual physical in the plan with the four basic labs, we include a … exam in the plan as well, and so it’s a very complete offering. Think about when you go to a primary care physician’s office, everything that happens in the four walls of a primary care physician is included in our membership. So it’s primary care, it’s unlimited, and it’s only $10 every time you go see the physician, or zero if you talk to them over the phone. Okay, and it covers you 24/7, 365. So for that and our street price on, we sell it to companies, who then offer it to their employees.
Saul Marquez:
They’re employers, yeah.
Andy Bonner:
We do have an individual offering, so that’s a little bit more expensive, but our street rate on this product is about $45. I think it’s $46 now, and $46 a month for unlimited access to healthcare.
Saul Marquez:
That’s awesome. And then, for sure, as far as primary care is concerned. So what about medications or potential if you have to go to the ER or something like that?
Andy Bonner:
Yeah, so we’re, what we do a lot, I refer to as, our sister organization who creates different plans, we embed our solution in traditional health plans, whether it be a self-insured, fully insured. We have it wrapped with some gap providers that you can, employer who may have a high-deductible health plan, but the employee has to pay out of pocket for the first $5000. We’re a dollar-one coverage. Instead of coming out of pocket for all of your day-to-day needs, this is a great solution to merge or act as a gap product inside a high-deductible health insurance product. It’s used quite frequently for that.
Saul Marquez:
Got it.
Andy Bonner:
And in fact, what we’ve been able to do now very successfully, especially in a lot of state and local government organizations, is we’ve been able to get the risk providers to give us a discount on the AG when you put direct primary care in, because what essentially what direct primary care does is that eats up all the claims associated with primary care. So there’s no claims against a health plan for everything that we do. And so these risk providers love it when you can take and remove claims off the plan. And if you can do that, they’ll lower their rate to the employer. And in many cases, that discount on the AG will pay for our services completely.
Saul Marquez:
Yeah, interesting. Love it. And what about medications?
Andy Bonner:
Yeah, medications, we have a discount program as well. If you’re, like a lot of people, they will just have this. Think about home health agencies and stuff like that, folks making $10 to $15 an hour. They may not have the ability to afford even a metal plan on the exchange, but they’ll use this as their primary healthcare. And in that case, yeah, we have a full bucket of programs and sit underneath the plan that you get when you sign up for a membership.
Saul Marquez:
So you guys are PDM too or are you associated with and contracted with one?
Andy Bonner:
Now we just, we hire those services.
Saul Marquez:
You hire them out, got it. Cool, man, very interesting. So, really looking at the landscape of opportunity for coverage, you guys are a great option for employers that are looking to either provide a more discounted rate for high-deductible plans. There’s a, there’s an opportunity for them to even maybe get discounts on some of their premiums because of the, you’re lowering the total number of reimbursement claims for primary care. So just a couple different things there. What about for those that are not insured? Is there an option for them, a plan?
Andy Bonner:
Think about the 1099 environment. So you got a ton of people that are doing that. That’s one of the great things about this type of product. It is a non-insurance alternative, so it does not fall underneath the Department of Insurance in each state. You can contract with us at any time. You don’t have to wait till the first of the year open enrollment or wait till the exchange plans come on online to be able to buy our services. You can do it at any time, you can do it with a credit card on a personal basis. And we have a lot of individual, or what we call mini-med programs, that combines our solution with, let’s say, a hospital indemnity product or something like that or a non-insurance individual product. So we can do all, we can do health shares, we combine our product with health shares a lot of times as well. So it really works; there’s not a product that it doesn’t work in and doesn’t improve the product. Because there’s really, if you think about POs today, I think what’s what a lot of people who are utilizing healthcare today understand, is that if you don’t have a physician, good luck trying to find a physician when you’re sick, because the availability of a physician to be able to be seen in a 2 to 3 week period if you’re not already established is unheard of. And so that’s why the usage of urgent care is increasing so much across the US. And you could, Saul, in the fee-for-service world, for instance, you go to a primary care doctor, your insurance may pay 70 bucks for that visit. You go to urgent care, that same visit is going to cost you 150 bucks to your plan. And as an individual out of pocket, the same applies. It’s lesser to go to a primary care than it does to urgent care. So, in our world, what’s very unique about our partnerships with these physicians is that they give us most favored nation access in their panel. So when you call in to Healthcare2U, and you want to go see a doctor, the ability for us to get you in within 24 to 48 hours is over 95% of the time. So we have a very good track record and great relationships in first or most-favored-nation clauses in our contracts with our physicians so you get seen. It’s not one of those, hey, you have this, but good luck, here’s a PO directory. Good luck finding a physician that’s going to treat you. In our world, you’re seeing one within 24 to 48 hours.
Saul Marquez:
I love that. Yeah, but I don’t know, I forget when we had it, but had the CEO of Sedera on, and he talked about how beneficial these types of plans are for their membership, the cost-sharing model, and really helping people get what they need on the spot, but also keeping them healthy overall.
Andy Bonner:
Right. I’m familiar with Sedera. Sedera’s here in Austin.
Saul Marquez:
Yeah, and that’s my…
Andy Bonner:
I actually had Sedera for my employees, and we did exactly the same thing. We, because of the fact that you have to, you only have so many events during the year that they cover it, and it’s a certain dollar amount, all your day-to-day stuff, you got to pay out of pocket in the healthcare plans. So that’s why putting this inside or as a base offering inside the healthcare plans makes so much sense, because this gobbles up all of your day-to-day stuff. And they’ll do the same thing like an insurance carrier will do, they’ll give you a discount if you provide this or if you buy this in addition to the healthcare.
Saul Marquez:
Fascinating. Guys, if you haven’t had a chance to explore this field, certainly, it’s a fantastic field to look into; the opportunity in this space to provide savings for your organization is huge. So definitely look into programs like this that Andy’s sharing with us, Healthcare2U in this particular podcast today. In the show notes, we’ll provide links to the, Andy’s business, and they’ll find ways to offer you major value. Andy, if you have to call out one thing that you’re most excited about here today, what would it be, and what call to action would you leave our listeners with?
Andy Bonner:
Saul, I’m very proud of my organization from the standpoint that we’ve been around for ten years. We’re the only organization of our type today that has a national reach. In other words, I have members and operations in all 50 states, the US Virgin Islands, and Puerto Rico, by the way. So, I do have operations in all 50 states, I’m the only hybrid VPC organization in the nation that can say that. But more importantly, is I’m the only organization that I’m aware of today that allows your medical history to follow you. So I call it Solving for Andy. Remember I told you about my journey and going to different urgent cares and how two different urgent cares can’t talk to each other? I solved that. So now, when you go see one of our physicians, your medical history is stored at Healthcare2U, and whether you’re in New York, or Seattle, or Chicago, or South Florida, or wherever you are in the nation, if you need to seek medical care, we get you to a doctor, but not only do we get you to a doctor, we share all your medical information with that physician. And after that visit, all of that medical information comes back to us, stored in our database, and ready for you in your next call. So we’ve done some very unique things from a technological standpoint, but probably the biggest key is that we have very good access, availability, you’re not going to have difficulty finding a physician in Healthcare2U, especially in that regional, even major metropolitan areas, but a lot of your rural areas as well. We’ve got great coverage across the entire US.
Saul Marquez:
That’s awesome. That’s great to know. And folks, definitely take a look at Healthcare2U. We’ll leave links to the company and opportunities for you to engage with your company’s healthcare benefits with Andy’s team. And Andy, this has been a really insightful conversation. I’ve had a lot of fun discussing this with you and providing the option to all the listeners. So can’t thank you enough for joining us, and certainly looking forward to staying in touch with you.
Andy Bonner:
All right. Thanks, Saul. Appreciate it.
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