Anatoly Geyfman, Founder and CEO, Carevoyance

Right Care, Right Patients, Right Time – Empowering Medtech with Anatoly Geyfman, Founder and CEO, Carevoyance transcript powered by Sonix—easily convert your audio to text with Sonix.

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Saul Marquez:
Welcome back to the Outcomes Rocket. Saul Marquez here and today I have the privilege of hosting Anatoly Geyfman. He is the CEO and co-founder of Carevoyance, a health care sales enablement solution for life sciences that is doing extraordinary work for drawing out value propositions for companies looking to express that clearly. Anatoly came to a work in health care early in his career, starting off as the lead engineer on one of the first HIPAA Compliant Benefits Communication Products for Enterprises. He continued to work with large health care data sets and H.R. SOF before becoming the chief architect at Ambra Health, a cloud based medical imaging company. He was there at Ambra that Anatoly saw the need for high quality data to inform sales execution, which germinated the idea for Carevoyance. We’re thrilled to have him on the podcast today, and it’s such a unique platform that they’re using to reach customers and for sales teams to reach their customers in a clear way. Anatoly, thank you so much for joining me today.

Anatoly Geyfman:
Thanks, Saul. I appreciate it. Glad to be here.

Saul Marquez:
Yeah, absolutely. So tons of great stuff being done by your company clairvoyance. And so before we dive into really the meat and bones of what you guys do there, I’d love to first park and find out more about you and what inspires your work and health care.

Anatoly Geyfman:
Yeah, I appreciate it. And so I started working in health care actually, when I was still in high school. And I just happened to luck out and find an internship working on one of the first HIPAA enabled systems for human resources management. So that really started my love for working with large datasets and working with privileged data like that. I continued that with some other gigs specifically around medical imaging, and that’s really where I started learning about the difficulty that companies have selling in health care. So with my medical imaging gig first I was the chief architect of a company called Ambra Health, was a big medical imaging. And then I switched over to more of a developer evangelist than sales engineering role. And that’s where I really started looking at how companies that produce these great products go to market with them. And what inspires me about health care, specifically my little corner of health care, is helping innovators take their market, their products to market. I think there’s a lot of great innovation that’s happening right now, especially with digital innovation, machine learning and health care. But I think that the path to a successful product is still that it’s still very hard to navigate. So that’s what inspires me, getting these products to a wider audience and getting patients the right treatment at the right time, eventually through the use of our product and obviously great innovation.

Saul Marquez:
Yeah, you know, that’s so great. And there’s so many opportunities for companies and the people leading them, the teams that are representing the great work that I mean, many of these companies we have on the podcast Anatoly and they just have great work and they have great products and services. And the pathway to get there, the go to market strategy isn’t always super clear. And then on top of that, it’s not easy to sell inside of our health care system and it takes forever. So.

Anatoly Geyfman:
All of those things are true. Yeah, yeah. And I think that there are a lot of products that end up failing, not because the product and successful because the greater market strategy is maybe not very well informed. There may be it’s not very well executed. And so if I can do anything to help that and that that’s where I decided to spend my time is helping entrepreneurs with the way that they go to market.

Saul Marquez:
I think it’s great. And in our vertical or our economy or health care economy, it’s so necessary. So tell us a little bit about what you guys are doing at Carevoyance to add value to the health care ecosystem of innovators. Yeah, absolutely.

Anatoly Geyfman:
So I’ll start with the problem. I think the really big problem right now that we see, at least in our little corner, is the health care economy is data symmetry. It’s OK. Everyone makes decisions or at least everyone tries to make decisions in a data driven way. So the acquisition of the data to make those decisions for your data market or even your product strategy is still not democratized. Data is sometimes available and very granularly will be available and sometimes it’s not available at all. And companies like Carevoyance, what we’re trying to do and at least I”ll speak for Carevoyance right now, well, we’re trying to do is we’re trying to democratize access to this information, whether it’s information about who’s doing what types of services, what types of physicians are practicing the type of medicine that your device is best for or that your pharmaceutical product is the best patient for it. I think a lot of times that data is available, but traditionally it’s only been available to the wealthiest players in our market. And so. Our goal is to democratize access to that. So even startups that may not have the backing of the largest VC firms may not have a hundred million dollars in the bank and can get access to it and really execute a great go to market.

Saul Marquez:
And so and so let’s get granular here. What kind of data are we talking about?

Anatoly Geyfman:
Well, there’s a whole lot right.. So if you think about how health care is performed, there’s all sorts of information that goes into the systems of record of abuse at facilities and offices where patients are treated. So eventually that data flows through a number of intermediaries and goes into the insurance companies for payment or maybe gets stored in the health care vaults of these hospitals. And it could be billing data, it could be charged data, it could be notes, data, it could be imaging data. And there’s a little bit of information in each of those aspects of the data continuum. And what we’re trying to do is we’re trying to stitch together a lot of these data sets into a holistic map of health care. So what physicians are university physicians, addressable market, let’s say. What types of patients are they seeing? Specific patients, of course, but at least the trends right. So are they seeing patients with these conditions or these conditions? What types of modalities of care they are utilizing or are they performing this type of procedure, that type of procedure, and then trying to give our customers a really clear view as to what their data market strategy could be if they’re going after intervention was, for example, in pain. Does it make sense to focus on folks that are performing competitive interventions already, or does it make sense to focus on folks that are maybe a little bit upstream of those interventions and give them a path to help their patients without necessarily sending them over to some other specialist?

Saul Marquez:
So really, you’re you’re getting specialized data on each account, each office, each facility to help deliver a message that that is really kind of, I guess, tailored to whatever that accounts needs are.

Anatoly Geyfman:
Yeah, absolutely. In today’s busy world, physicians, nurse, salespeople have time to waste their time on fruitless pursuits. Physicians don’t want to hear your story if it doesn’t pertain to them. And you shouldn’t be even telling it because you’ve got other things to do as a salesperson. So to increase efficiency in our market, hopefully to decrease the cost of at least the go to market cost, I think it’s best to use data to orient your sales and marketing strategies. And that’s what we try to do it.

Saul Marquez:
So what would you say makes what you guys do different or better than what else is out there?

Anatoly Geyfman:
And so what else is out there, I guess, is the real test is the first question. We think that three generations of products or three generations of solutions right now in our space and in the health care data space, you’ve got the vendors like IKEA, the Symphony Health. So traditional vendors that have been for years locking up data sources so they can sell them to their own customers. Those folks generally have really great data sets, but maybe their execution on top of those data sets could leave a lot to be desired for. So you end up when you’re a company that can afford that type of information, you end up getting a lot of spreadsheets. So not super helpful for sales execution. And then you’ve got you’ve got to have some analysis on top of the spreadsheets and then you’ve got to distribute that knowledge to your sales team, which is really difficult. So to address that, the second generation of companies has come in about 10 years ago, and that’s definitive health care and companies like them. And so what they do is they democratize a lot of that access. So it gives sellers or marketing folks an ability to go online, search really quickly for some of these CPC codes or whatever else that they’re searching for and see the information in one place. So what we see as the downside of that approach is that it’s information, it’s not necessarily insights, and it’s definitely not analysis that get distilled into really quick actions. And so what we’re trying to do is instead of giving you a spreadsheet and instead of giving you a cheap online, we try to give you actionable insights right away. And I think that we think of ourselves as like the next generation data platform for health care. So instead of executing your sales strategy with how many a physician performs, why not understand what the distribution of care is to this physician? I think that’s much more valuable and it can help identify what are the right physician opportunities for you, as opposed to just looking at the top to bottom list of performers.

Saul Marquez:
There’s some good call outs there. And so talk to us a little bit about how you’ve improved business and maybe an example of how the platforms helped one of your customers get results.

Anatoly Geyfman:
Yeah, absolutely. So we work with a lot of capital equipment companies and the way that value-based care has transformed the health care enterprise, the facilities that perform a lot of care, that use capital equipment is that the clinical outcomes are still extremely important. But with a lot of vendors on the market that have very similar clinical outcomes, you have to start figuring out what what are the other outcomes that a hospital may benefit from a huge investment like a capital equipment investment or robotics investment, for example. And so one of the value propositions that our that our product has is that we help our customers paint that picture with real life data, specifically from that facility that they’re selling into. And specifically with the service lines that their products services. So some of the outcomes we get used in something like seventy five to 90 percent of the deals that are capital equipment customers have in their pipeline. Out of those deals, we comprise the completely the financial outcomes portion of their presentation. So in other words, with our information, with our data, they’re able to tell that story in a really cohesive way really quickly. And I think one of the most important things that’s not that needs to be said is when you standardize on a particular story and you standardize and a particular set of data to tell it, you now have a fully enabled sales team that knows how to execute on that strategy. And so I think that’s the most important thing that we do, is once that story is established, anyone from a person who doesn’t like spreadsheets at all to a person who lives inside a spreadsheet, they can tell that story really quickly. And I think that’s really important because then you have a lot more predictability around your deal flow and around your sales execution.

Saul Marquez:
Yeah, that’s super interesting. And so looking at that financial outcome story, to be able to to help customers justify the purchase, what would you say has been one of the biggest setbacks you’ve experienced then and a key learning that came out of that as you guys have been building the platform dealing with different customers and users?

Anatoly Geyfman:
Yeah, absolutely. So early on, I think a lot of our you know, obviously we’re having setbacks all the time as a startup does. And if you don’t, you’re definitely having them anyways. That’s, ah. Your line or your benefit of the doubt. But look, I think I think a lot of our setbacks were that we didn’t really understand early on who our customers were. So we weren’t selling our product to a traditional customer base that other products like ours have, which is strategy and marketing organization. And what we ended up seeing is that those folks would use our product. They would love it. But the information that that that we were presenting to them never distilled down to the sales team. And so we saw that there’s this huge gap between the marketing organization and the strategy organization that knew exactly what they were doing and they knew exactly who they wanted to who they wanted to approach in terms of their outreach on a more global level, on a national level, let’s say in the sales execution side of things, it never really it never really gelled that right.. So so I think that was a really big setback for our business because we ended up being useful to a small number of people and then we ended up sort of being ignored because at the end of the day, what distilled down to those folks for maybe a report in a spreadsheet? And so we made a pretty big push in twenty eighteen and we went full on to serve as the sellers as opposed to the marketing and the strategy organization in most of our customers today, our primary points of contact, our sales organization, sales VPs and directors of sales, and the way that we made that pivot. I read this great book by Clayton Christensen from Harvard Business School. He passed away last year. It’s called Competing Against Luck. And when I read that book, it just it just clicked for me.

Saul Marquez:
Did it?

Anatoly Geyfman:
Wwhat is the what is the job to be done that we’re helping folks to do? Right. So the job to be done is not to download a spreadsheet. And it’s the job to be done is not to see who the top performers are in a state. The job to be done is to help sell the product in a way that we know how, which is to give this financial outlook to to understand utilization and to be able to paint that return on investment picture. And so that was the result of our pivot, just understanding our customers and how they’re using it. And then lots and lots of customer interviews. We sort of came back from that and that’s been paying dividends. And it also, luckily enough, very nicely differentiates us against other folks in our industry,

Saul Marquez:
That’s awesome.

Anatoly Geyfman:
Because I think we’re the only ones who really have, like, a stellar focus on our market.

Saul Marquez:
That’s pretty cool. You found your your message resonating with the marketing and strategy, folks, but it wasn’t reaching that front line where you guys felt the biggest value was with the insights and you pivoted and it’s worked ever since and being able to to paint this financial ROI story is something that is critical if you’re trying to get your solution to market, if you can’t tell that ROI story. Forget about it. You’re dead in the water. And it’s pretty neat that you were able to figure out a way to to piece it together. And now there’s an opportunity for everybody listening to actually take advantage of this so Anatoly, congrats on that pivot. And here you are today, two years after that. What are you most excited about today?

Anatoly Geyfman:
Thanks for the appreciate that. So obviously, there’s a lot to be excited about today. Let’s talk about that right now. Look, I think I think we’re going through a huge health care transformation. And I think the way that health care is sold today is going to change very dramatically in the next five years. And I think there are two trends that are being very quickly accelerated by the covid-19 pandemic in the United States. I think the movement of value based care is going to get accelerated tremendously. And so what I’m excited about is changing the way that we think about our life and being more holistic, about patient outcomes and other attributes of financial attributes as inputs into these into the return on investment. Right. So is the return on investment purely financial or is the return on the investment community and a patient level return? I think and so we already are thinking about and working on capturing all of these inputs to present a more comprehensive story as our reimbursement landscape changes and the way that we sell into these facilities changes.

Saul Marquez:
And I think that’s awesome. And you called it I mean, we are in the middle of a health care transformation. Value-Based Care is is becoming more real. We’re starting to see digital health technologies be more widely accepted. Telehealth. So what are what are you doing to transform with it? Otherwise, you’re going to get left behind. And the work that Anatoly and his team are doing to help you drive sales sales efforts that are tuned in to what your customers are doing are is the future. So definitely a great opportunity to learn more from them. But I’ll let Anatoly let you know where to go before we conclude here. I love if you could just share a closing thought, Anatoly, and the best place for the listeners could learn more and also get in touch with you and your team.

Anatoly Geyfman:
Appreciate it. That’s all. Thanks. Look, I mean, the last six months in the United States from the end of July, but really February to July accelerated so many trends that were just pretty slowly ramping up, but accelerated them 10x Right. to work from home value based payments of care, but also things like telehealth and remote patient monitoring and chronic condition management. All of these things that we could rely on to be done in the office and now done somewhere else. Right. And I think these are huge trends that everyone needs to be aware of. Even implantable devices have to be aware of it. If you didn’t see. But I just got clearance for having patients control their implantable stimulators with their own iPhones. And that’s a huge change, Right.. And I think that’s part of this trend. And so if you’re looking to understand how these things are working, we’d love to talk with you. Our website is Carevoyance dot come, but Carevoyance spelled with Care, and you can always email at at hello@carevoyance.com. We’d love to talk with you of it.

Saul Marquez:
Anatoly, folks, take them up on that. Today is the day that you could make that choice to take your business to that next level. And Carevoyance is doing some really neat stuff. They they integrate Salesforce. I think they’re on to something here. So check them out. Carevoyan, Dotcom. Anatoly, just want to say thanks again for jumping on with us. This has been a lot of fun.

Anatoly Geyfman:
Likewise. Thanks Saul. And I appreciate your time as well.

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