Using evidence-based truths about human nature to improve habits and health
Recommended Book:
Procedure: Women Remaking Medicine
Best Way to Contact Jaime:
jaime.hope@Beaumont.edu
Mentioned Link:
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Saul Marquez:
Welcome back to the podcast today I have the privilege of hosting Dr. Jamie Hope. She’s an attending physician in emergency medicine at Beaumont Health Royal Oak campus, a large level one trauma center tertiary care and academic facility. She’s an assistant professor at Oakland University William Beaumont School of Medicine and enjoys teaching in the classroom as well as the bedside. She graduated from Michigan State University’s College of human medicine and is a loyal Spartan fan. Dr. Hope. Go Spartans. Doctor Hope is passionate about health promotion, empowerment, and using evidence based truths about human nature to improve habits and health span. And I love that health span instead of lifespan. We’ve talked about that in the past. We’ll dive into that some more. In this episode she’s a frequent volunteer at local homeless shelters, community centers and senior citizen group meetings sharing her enthusiasm about wellness and confidence. It’s a true privilege to have you on the podcast today, welcome.
Jaime Hope:
Thank you so much for having me, Saul. I really appreciate the opportunity to be here.
Saul Marquez:
It’s a privilege to have you here, Jamie. Now tell us what got you into the health care sector?
Jaime Hope:
You know I’ve always been fascinated by medicine and as you know as a kid you kind of have that I can be anything I want to be. Do I want to be a marine biologist and astronaut had to teach her doctor and I always loved teaching and I loved medicine and as I got further my education I realized that they are in many ways one in the same. So having the opportunity to get to teach one on one at the bedside with my patients in particular and then to step back and teach clinicians and future clinicians about different ways that we can affect patient outcomes it’s really the ultimate dream job. And some days I’m actually pretty amazed that they pay me to do this. It’s amazing.
Saul Marquez:
That’s awesome. Well Dr. Hope for a lot of people had the frame around how you look at it. I think there would be more fulfillment out there. So you’re doing it the right way. What would you say is a hot topic that needs to be on leaders agendas today. And how are you approaching it?
Jaime Hope:
So I love that this is focused toward leaders and being invited to do grand rounds and as a guest consultant at multiple hospital systems, the two biggest areas that I’m asked to speak about are improving the patient experience and then physician burnout. And you know I’ve had people say those are kind of different aspects of medicine. How do they relate together and what it really is is if you step back and take a bigger look at it. It’s about employee engagement and that’s certainly that’s a measurable outcome that’s something that leaders can really be on board with. So by focusing on that concept of engagement we can really address things like wellness and burnout. And by doing that we can improve the patient experience scores which have direct monetary and rating consequences for health care systems.
Saul Marquez:
So it’s really interesting that you said it’s an engagement problem and our opportunity right depending on how you look at it. So tell us a little bit more about that. Like peel back the onion and how does that work.
Jaime Hope:
So you know I’m a practicing clinician so I’m I’m in the trenches and in the pit of the emergency department and we get a lot of emails and mandates. Okay you need to do this you need to do this. And those of us who are very engaged in our job and very interested and very passionate and looking at the bigger picture about outcomes. Okay you’re gonna send me one more thing to do. OK. I’m going to do it. But then the leadership is getting frustrated because why are some of the people not doing it and never stepping back to see what are barriers to implementing those changes. Both cultural barrier, a mental barrier a personal barrier, a supplies available barrier and so it just constantly is increasing dissatisfaction among the staff which worsens engagement, increases burnout and then as a direct result of that your patient experience scores are going to go down. And so just seeing all those opportunities along the chain where if we handle things a little bit differently we can improve the outcomes across the board in all of those scores. And that’s such a huge win.
Saul Marquez:
That’s a really great explanation there and how effective would you say is the executive rounding?
Jaime Hope:
Meaning the executives coming and rounding at the patients side?
Saul Marquez:
I know a lot of people talk about taking a walk around the hospital like how effective is that?
Jaime Hope:
So I think that there is some good and bad with that. One, I want people to come into the trenches with me. I want them to see that the bloody floor of the gunshot victim that I just took care of and understand why the waiting room is full. I want them to see that they are telling us that we need in order to be more engaged with patients we need to sit and then walk through my department and realize there’s not a single chair in a patient room to stop telling me.. giving me a mandate to sit without understanding what the problem is. The key is because I think this is a great idea really. That whole walking a mile in another person’s shoes because we need to do that with the patients as well as an aside and as a future thing. But when they’re down there I want them to first listen and then suggest and I think that the time that those rounds go wrong when they are essentially just showing up and immediately throwing mandates as opposed to taking the opportunity the huge opportunity to get involved with an engaged with what’s going on on the ground level. If people are doing that then it’s a fantastic idea.
Saul Marquez:
Powerful. Now I love that shared Dr. Hope and definitely can appreciate these different examples that you mentioned. No place to sit. Understanding why the why the waiting room still feel like it just it just makes sense and so call out here folks listening is that you should listen and then suggest and the clarity of suggestion over mandate understanding is that is definitely key. So walk us through an example of maybe a way that you’ve created results. Dr. Hope and by doing and thinking differently.
Jaime Hope:
So I was invited to come speak to a different health care system in Lehigh Valley in Pennsylvania and they wanted me to come talk about engagement and physician burnout and they had a lot of residents and hearing from the administration. These are our frustrations we have these resources nobody is using them. What’s going on. And so I went in instead of being this sage on the stage which people love to do because they gave me two full hours during which I could just yap to the entire time but I didn’t. I was looking for a guide on the side role and once I was able to. So they actually had the administrators and the staff and the residents present in the same room which is a huge opportunity and created this I created this environment of appreciative inquiry and we were able to sit down and figure out what some of the barriers were in allowing the people who are working there to come up with suggestions both from the top down and from an i choose the word bottom. So if you know from the other level up and see what the problems are. It was so interesting when the administration is trying to fix one problem when that’s such a minor thing to the people actually doing the work but they have this other problem. And so we’re just everyone spinning their wheels were completely missing each other in the big point and this is certainly not unique to this hospital system by any means. This happens in my own.
Saul Marquez:
Of course.
Jaime Hope:
But to sit down with everybody and to get into a smaller wisdom circles and mastermind groups and take that opportunity and then to share with the big group we saw consistent themes in a lot of the instances that were come up with independently from the group we put them up on the board and then we were able to look at them and create some specific problem solving. And by the end of that meeting everybody in the room knew what resources were available how they could access them how they wanted to use them and the administration had a clear idea of what the current problems were the things that were worrying the staff that were weighing them down and what the staff suggestions were in order to solve that they are actually very reasonable suggestions I think administrators fear of him is going to say we want to make a million dollars a week, we don’t want to work and we want you know free snacks, which would be great but really the suggestions were we know that we could improve flow if you would allow us to do this. You know it was a simple very simple plan that made complete sense and they were able to utilize that. So it was it was so satisfying to get to see and so that’s the approach that I take when I’m working with companies and hospital systems to really find out what the problems are because the solutions are there. Yeah if we all work together you can make such a difference. Gonna save you so much beating your head against a wall and actually get the answers.
Saul Marquez:
Such a great example, Jamie and I love your saying you know being a sage on the stage versus a guide on the side. I love that I wrote that down.
Jaime Hope:
I would love to take credit for it and I can not for the life of me remember. I heard it from Joe Polish who is a thought leader in the marketing world he runs. Genius network in this you know this amazing mastermind group I heard it from him I’m not sure if it’s officially his quote but.
Saul Marquez:
Regardless you brought it to us. We’re giving you credit.
Jaime Hope:
Oh, thank you.
Saul Marquez:
On the outcomes rocket Dr. Jamie hope said that.
Jaime Hope:
Yes. All right. I’ll take it.
Saul Marquez:
So we’ll give you credit. Love that. And it speaks volumes to the approach and the outcome that you get from having those wisdom circles, those masterminds and so definitely worth taking a look at this fresh approach listeners. The old thinking is not going to get us to where we need to be and this fresh approach that Dr. Hope is offering is something to consider. So tell us about a time you had a setback made a mistake. What did you learn from that that’s made you better?
Jaime Hope:
So. Oh good. The good thing about that is there are so many examples of opportunity because we kind of do that wrong in any healthcare system. I heard this quote which I thought was fantastic. You can beat your head against a wall enough times to make a hole in it. But wouldn’t it be easier to just go through the door and say I’ve seen us doing that and staff meetings. There was in one instance that a patient experience committee meeting. The focus was there was one patient complaint and we see you know six figures worth of patients every year one patient complained that staff members were buying food at the cafeteria in the lobby and they said well if they have time to buy food why are they not taking care of all these patients in the waiting room. And we dedicated a ton of time to focusing on that problem and then trying to tell the staff OK you can’t buy food here. OK. Now the staff doesn’t have access to food during your shift and it created this whole hubbub. It reminded me of one of my favorite means where there’s a person drowning in a pool and there’s another person diligently reaching toward that person with a bar of soap. Sometimes we’re just we’re completely missing the point of what the problem is. And so what the problem was there is not that employees are eating cause I think that’s a good thing. The problem that they saw there was we have a full waiting room and the people who are waiting didn’t have a clear understanding of why they were waiting and what the process was going on. So they used a proxy, Hey why are people eating. So we spent a ton of time kind of spinning our wheels on that specific employees have to be able to stand in this line between these hours and these hours instead of really saying what can we do to improve flow and efficiency through the Department to minimize wait times and then for those who are waiting how can we communicate with them so that they understand what’s going on and that we really are working extremely hard behind the scenes because we care about them as an individual and as a patient and we are going to help them absolutely as soon as we can.
Saul Marquez:
That’s a great call out, Dr. Hope and when you’re taking a look at things I mean when you’re in the trenches it’s really hard to separate the signal from the noise and what you just highlighted there is this signal versus noise. So what do you do. How do you know when you’re in the thick of it and an issue arises how do you how do you resist the temptation of just tackling that problem right away. I mean this this stuff happens and make cybersecurity too, right? The email from the president asking for a P.O. and if it’s from the president you need to act right away. Right. And so many people get tricked that way. How do you resist the temptation of solving the problem right away.
Jaime Hope:
We all want to do that we’re problem solvers by nature anybody in the medical field we are to help people we want to create solutions. And it’s really the process is the same. So whether I’m sitting there with a patient one on one taking their history and physical to find out why they’re in the emergency department whether we’re looking at a complaint or a problem you can’t jump in and diagnose or even skip that step and treat the patient until you really understand what’s going on. So having the perspective and having the the leadership role to be able to take one step back and say get a more clear example. History and physical before diagnosis, diagnosis before treatment. And that really applies to all of these problems. It’s just it’s good practice and we all need to take that thing back. The best way that you can find the solution is to continue to ask the best questions. The answer will always come.
Saul Marquez:
It’s great. Absolutely. And this could be applying on topics like the one that Dr. Hope just presented where you know the staff was eating and weight room was full. What’s the problem. Or even organizational planning going through some of the things that you really want to achieve. That’s super key. Now what would you say one of your proudest leadership experiences has been to date.
Jaime Hope:
So getting to gosh, it’s been so much fun. In working with this process of appreciative inquiry and I think one of my proudest moments though because I work with medical students also and they have a you know they have a lot of people that come in and out in terms of teaching and lecturing and I’m working in the same way that I do with these meetings with appreciative in Korean with with staff and stuff working with the students as well adult learners learn in a different way. So same thing I could stand up there and squawk at them and read them PowerPoint slides for a few hours or I could engage them in the learning process and by doing this on multiple different levels and they’ve had the opportunity to see you know not only what I’ve done with them but some of the outcomes I’ve had specifically with patients and then with them helping improve the system. I was nominated for the 2018 Arnold peopled national humanism award because I’m doing this from a place of caring and trying to make medicine a better place for everyone. And I was just so taken aback and so happy and what a wonderful beautiful nomination. So I’m so proud of that and that it’s making a difference.
Saul Marquez:
That’s amazing. And so you also mentioned appreciative inquiry and I think it’s worth diving into that because it’s it’s really kind of a guiding set of principles right and that’s driving the way you’re doing things. Do you mind going into it a little bit and telling the listeners a little bit more?
Jaime Hope:
No I would love to. So this is actually a specific area of training that I’m now doing. I had kind of come to these type of things on my own with teaching and stuff over the years. Having learned from my mistakes enough times being how to engage the group and then I was at a mastermind group called Go abundance. And one of the leaders there, Jumper Gaf Bans the flourishing Leadership Institute and they are specifically kind of essentially the birthplace of appreciative inquiry and this didn’t come out of a sales pitch or the entrepreneurial world. This actually came from Ivy League professors who really did the research on this and learned that this is a best practice. And so by going through this courses which is essentially a master’s degree in learning how to utilize this process and then taking it forward into anything any staff meeting any leadership retreat staff retreats and stuff like that and creating this space it’s the outcomes that people get have been substantially better. But some organizations love to bring in a great motivational speaker and I love doing that I’m great at it I can get the audience inspired and excited but if they don’t leave with actionable outcomes and feeling ownership of the process then it was just entertainment. And so to take that to the biggest level to find out what their needs are versus other people’s art you have to ask on every level you have to ask the patient what’s going on you have to ask your employees what their barriers are and figure out what their issues are you have to ask the organization what else can we do. And it’s it’s that ask where it all finally clicked for me and it’s just been an amazing change in my professional life.
Saul Marquez:
I love it. Appreciate you diving into that and I definitely hear the passion and the excitement and.
Jaime Hope:
Oh yes.
Saul Marquez:
Yeah I mean it’s just there it’s in your voice. Definitely owning it in a big way. So congrats on that.
Jaime Hope:
Thank you.
Saul Marquez:
And what would you say an exciting project or focus you’re working on today.
Jaime Hope:
So I’m actually working on that specifically like I did for the health system in Pennsylvania. I have in progress in the creation of what I can come in and work with both employees and leadership and hopefully both together on things like improving engagement around the topics of addressing burnout, wellness teamwork and improving specific experience and outcome for patients. So it’s all very outcomes oriented process where everybody feels so involved and engaged. So I am the curriculum is is ready. And so the next step is to continue to connect with organizations that are looking to improve their outcomes.
Saul Marquez:
For the folks listening, Jamie how would they get in touch with you if they’re interested in learning more?
Jaime Hope:
So I have two different ways you can email me directly. The biggest problem is unfortunately the spelling of my name which is a little unusual and so I get a lot of misdirected email but it’s jaime.hope@Beaumont.edu or to get around the whole name spelling question. They can go to my website: drhopehealth.com. So DRhopehealth.com and there’s a contact form available there that they can reach out to me.
Saul Marquez:
Wonderful. So folks if you’re curious about any of the great work being done by Dr. Hope in improving employee engagement, outcomes in your organization definitely take her up on that. So getting close to the end here Dr. Hope got the lightning round portion of our podcast followed by a book you recommend to the listeners, you ready?
Jaime Hope:
I am ready.
Saul Marquez:
What’s the best way to improve health care outcomes.
Jaime Hope:
I believe that the best way to improve outcomes for the patients is to have your staff well taken care of and engaged and they are going to deliver the best possible care in that culture and scenario.
Saul Marquez:
What’s the biggest mistake or pitfall to avoid?
Jaime Hope:
Making mandates that don’t make sense or there are too many barriers to implementation.
Saul Marquez:
How do you stay relevant as an organization despite constant change?
Jaime Hope:
Oh embrace change and ask. You need to continue. You can’t just say OK great we figured out what all the problems are. And think that you can solve them forever in the same way you can’t take a shower once and be clean for the rest of the year. So embrace that this is an ongoing process and you will absolutely stay relevant.
Saul Marquez:
Love it. What is the one area of focus that drives everything in your work?
Jaime Hope:
Appreciative Inquiry.
Saul Marquez:
Doesn’t get clearer than that does it. I love it. Love it, Dr. Hope. And so these next two are a little more on the personal note. What is your number one health habit?
Jaime Hope:
Oh I love health habits. I actually wrote a book about it so my number one health habit is self care. We have this thing in medicine. It’s almost in the business in general. It’s almost as if there’s some kind of trophy if you work the hardest and burn yourself out. That’s completely ridiculous. So my health habit I’ve embraced this concept that I teach self care isn’t selfish and it’s made all the difference. I had been burned out in the past and now as you can tell by my excitement I love my job. I love serving patients and I love getting good outcomes but it’s because I’m coming from that place of self care. So one of the best habits I’ve come up with.
Saul Marquez:
Love it. And how about your number one success habit?
Jaime Hope:
Oh my number one success habit. I believe that it is the willingness to ask for and receive help. We’ll get to a point where it’s almost that we should know what we’re doing we shouldn’t ask for help but I’ve embraced this concept that I can always learn more about medicine about the business about running a conference about being a speaker. All of that stuff. So taking in feedback and advice and things from other people and constantly allowing myself to be comfortable and confident in my own skin that I can accept additional information from other people. And now that I’m a lifelong student of all of these things and become my success is gone through the roof.
Saul Marquez:
Beautiful. And what book would you recommend to the listeners, Jamie?
Jaime Hope:
I’m so glad that you asked that. I have thought about recommending my book but I’m in this instance, I have a different book that I’m going to recommend in it’s called Procedure: women remaking medicine and the author is Emily F. Peters. And in this book it highlights a couple of, I think 10 remarkable women in different industries and sectors of health care and the changes that they have made and how those changes can be applied towards any type of health care industry. And that’s something that I really think needs to be on every leaders radar. It’s a short read it’s a very engaging. This is something that needs to be on absolutely everybody’s bookshelf.
Saul Marquez:
Outstanding. What a great recommendation. I’ll definitely be going on my bookshelf here after we’re done. So thank you for that. And folks you could get a list of all the resources we’ve discussed on the podcast;s website. Just go to outcomesrocket.health in the search bar type in. Jamie Hope. Dr. Jamie hope and it’s J A I M E..
Jaime Hope:
Thank you mom and dad.
Saul Marquez:
Or you could also type in Appreciative Inquiry and you’ll find the entire episode where you could replay it and get all the resources. So appreciate you checking that out before we conclude. Jamie I’d love if you could just share a closing thought. And then the best place where you’d like the listeners to get in touch with you.
Jaime Hope:
Great. So you can find me at drhopehealth.com. I am on LinkedIn I’m Dr. Jamie Hope, I’m on Twitter, I’m on Facebook all those different ways that people can reach out to me. My twitter handle is @DrHopehealth. Try and keep it consistent to make it easier to find me. And my closing would be by taking the opportunity to ask all the right questions. You will always get to the best solution.
Saul Marquez:
Love it. A great note to leave us off on Jamie and definitely a very inspirational interview today. So appreciate you doing what you do to make health better and also carving out some time for us today so thanks again.
Jaime Hope:
Awesome Saul. Thank you so much for having me, I really appreciate this opportunity.
Thanks for listening to the Outcomes Rocket podcast. Be sure to visit us on the web at www.outcomesrocket.com for the show notes, resources, inspiration and so much more.
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