Aideen Turner, Founder, and CEO at Virtual Physical Therapists

Improving Musculoskeletal Health for Less with Aideen Turner, Founder and CEO at Virtual Physical Therapists transcript powered by Sonix—the best audio to text transcription service

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Saul Marquez:
Welcome back to the Outcomes Rocket. Saul Marquez here and I am super excited to host Aideen Turner. She’s the Founder and CEO of Virtual Physical Therapists. Aideen’s focus is on reducing the cost of musculoskeletal disorders by providing convenient access to the best specialists anytime, anywhere. Before starting virtual physical therapists, Aideen spent over twenty five years in improving musculoskeletal outcomes as a physical therapist, published researcher, speaker, college lecturer, clinical oversight for an onsite company and owner of a busy outpatient clinic. With her background in clinical excellence, Aideen saw a need to transform the current path of musculoskeletal care by changing the focus from the treatment to a proper mechanical diagnosis. All VPT (Virtual Physical Therapists) clinicians are required to be certified in mechanical diagnosis to maintain quality and assure best outcomes as we think about how we best tackle these musculoskeletal challenges. Whether you be an employer, payer or provider just trying to manage, it’s key that we start looking at other options beyond the traditional brick and mortar. And Aideen is here to share some of her insights. Having been in both areas of care and now doing her virtual platform. So Aideen such a privilege to have you here with us today. Thanks for joining.

Aideen Turner:
Thank you, Saul.

Saul Marquez:
So, talk to me about how it all started Aideen, what got you into healthcare to begin with?

Aideen Turner:
Oh, I wish I had a great story that, you know, I had an accident and teaching changed my life, but it was probably just dumb luck. As soon as I heard the words physical therapy as a young child, I said, “What is that? That’s what I want to do.” Being hyper, it just matched my personality. So there’s nothing greater than helping people. I just feel every day that I’m in the greatest field. So just dumb luck.

Saul Marquez:
I love it. Hey listen. That’s good. And frankly, if a lot more people were honest, that’s how they’d ended up in what they do, too. So I appreciate your honesty. So what’s a hot topic that needs to be on health leaders agenda today? And what are you guys doing about it?

Aideen Turner:
That’s a simple one. My passion. The musculoskeletal epidemic. The cost and rate of disability due to musculoskeletal problems has just dramatically increased this past 30 years. So even though our healthcare is making these dramatic advancements, Americans are getting more disabled. We’re now spending two hundred thirteen billion dollars a year just on musculoskeletal problems. So we’re making people worse, not better. Yeah. And I think the biggest culprit of this epidemic is the abuse of the MRI. So there’s a lot that we need to look at because, again, we need to address this. It’s an epidemic three times worse than diabetes. Our focus is on so many other things and we need to relook at this.

Saul Marquez:
Three times bigger than diabetes and diabetes is a big number. So what’s that? Billion dollar number, you said again.

Aideen Turner:
Two hundred and thirteen billion a year.

Saul Marquez:
Just in the U.S.?

Aideen Turner:
Just in the U.S., just on musculoskeletal problems.

Saul Marquez:
Wow, now that’s the spend or is that the waste?

Aideen Turner:
That’s the spend.

Saul Marquez:
Okay, got it. So…

Aideen Turner:
Medicare… they say that by 50% waste. So what we’re spending, we’re probably wasting it. You don’t need 50% on those treatments.

Saul Marquez:
Crazy. That’s a lot of money.

Aideen Turner:
Yeah.

Saul Marquez:
And it’s incredible. So you obviously have a solution that you believe can bring that or at least make a dent in that. Right. So tell us about what you guys do and and how it’s making a difference in how you’re improving outcomes and curbing this cost.

Aideen Turner:
Sure. So I guess, you know, what are we doing right now? So if you wake up with neck pain or you throw your back out, the current process is, you first thing you do is you spend hours on Google trying to figure out you have got cancer or how to fix your ailment. Then after a couple days, your pain’s not going away. So you book a point with your primary doctor, you’re given a prescription. Of course, you you know, an anti-inflammatory. Hopefully now not an opioid, a muscle relaxer. Time goes by you get an x ray. Then you schedule with an orthopedist and then you get an MRI. And the average time is sixty two days before you see a physical therapist. So what we’re doing is crossing all of that out. You wake up with neck pain, you throw your back out. You simply download our app. Press a button and you are connected with the top clinicians in the country. So for our quality assurance, all of our clinicians have to have that extra degree. It’s not a weekend degree. It takes on average about two years and it’s simply because of outcomes.

Saul Marquez:
So what’s that again and I call it out on the intro but I want to hone in on it.

Aideen Turner:
Sure. It’s certification or diploma in mechanical diagnosis. And… Why? Because, you know what, we’re focusing too much of our time has been focused on treating symptoms but not addressing the root cause. So clinicians that have gone through this training are able to figure out what is the root cause of the pain. For so many years we’ve relied on special tests, we relied on MRI. But now research is telling us that if you have isolated extremity symptoms. So let’s say you had just elbow pain or knee pain. There is a 40% chance that that pain is actually coming from the spine, but if you go and get an MRI, they just had it. They just sent a great article out by Dr. Andrews about MRI. If you have a professional pitcher with no shoulder pain and he gets an MRI, he has a 90% chance of having a label tear and an 87% chance of having rotator cuff tear. So if you want to have surgery, just get an MRI. No symptoms. This is normal. So we were looking at a black and white picture and we’re thinking that this is the problem, but it may not be. So if you have shoulder pain, 40% of time comes from the neck. You need to evaluate where that pain is coming from. And the MRI is not to tell you that, only a clear mechanical assessment. So our clinician’s focus, not on treatment, it’s really on the evaluation to figure out where the pain is and then to educate the patient. You have a herniated disc. All this is a cut. So when you bend your opening, the cut, just like a country knuckle, this is how you fix it. And the outcomes, you know, a herniated disc. We average three to six visits, not six months.

Saul Marquez:
Right. Now, it’s interesting. And I love the example that you gave because it’s kind of like the most extreme, right. Somebody that uses that shoulder like nobody else on the world. They go in, they get an MRI, they got tears. Oh, yeah. Surgery candidate. No, no, not really. You know, and they you know, in the surgical circles, the physicians say, “hey, you got to treat the symptom, not the MRI.” The challenge is that a lot of people are treating MRI’s.

Aideen Turner:
Yeah.

Saul Marquez:
You’re proposing an alternative to that.

Aideen Turner:
Yes. So it’s… a patient, I mean, the research is showing that the patient gets an MRI. You can add $5,000 to their case. And what really happens? They get an MRI. We spend at least five visits trying to call them off the cliff. I mean, they just are there. No, but I have the germ of this disease. What that means to me is you have a gray hair on your head, just as it just means you’re over twenty five and patients that they think they have a disease and they’re going to get progressively worse. And this is what MRI’s have done to us. So I just call an MRI. The greatest sales funnel. To get an MRI, you’re definitely going to increase your treatment, you know.

Saul Marquez:
Well listen, I mean, hey, there’s some truth to that. I won’t debate it. And so as you’re thinking about, you know, the solution that you provide. Give us an example of maybe… I don’t know. Are you working with payers? Are you working with individuals? Is this a B2B or B2C?

Aideen Turner:
All… a bit both. So we have large contracts, especially in workers’ comp right now. And we started there because that was actually my background. So our contract with comp comp on average, you know, it’s more difficult population.

Saul Marquez:
Yup.

Aideen Turner:
Because it’s a lot of reasons, mostly because the workers not addressed first. They say that’s should be our primary focus. But while average visits a six to discharge and our outcomes are… the patient says they are 95% better plus. So it’s totally different on average for comp depending on the state. The average raises is 12 to 17. So and then are the charges are also significantly reduced. So we’re taken up by storm. The only now because we have these outcomes, we’re now transitioning over to where we really want to be. And that’s in the total reward side because at comp, we still have the physician involved, but we want to skip that whole process.

Saul Marquez:
Right.

Aideen Turner:
Soon as that person wakes up from pain, they’re able to get in touch with us rather than, you know, we don’t want the MRI before us. We don’t want, you know, the x rays and the medication. We want to see them first and then determine if they need further care.

Saul Marquez:
Sure. Sure. And and this is all. So you said six visits, standard care more in the teens. If it’s workers comp, is this. These visits are all virtual.

Aideen Turner:
Yes. So six visits for us. So our comp, we’re not going to see 17 visits. We average six. So compared to traditional TPA.

Saul Marquez:
Oh, Okay.

Aideen Turner:
Average’s 12 to 17. So we’re only six. We’re more than 50% reduced.

Saul Marquez:
I’m glad you clarified that. So on the workers comp cases, you’re averaging six visits for…

Aideen Turner:
Yeah.

Saul Marquez:
Ninety-ish percent satisfaction.

Aideen Turner:
Yes.

Saul Marquez:
Okay got it.

Aideen Turner:
And say they have to return to work.

Saul Marquez:
Okay got it, that’s meaningful.

Aideen Turner:
And that’s just because of the education of our commission, our commission on the very first day. Just as important as addressing pain is addressing fear. So on day one we’re addressing fear. Why is it so important? Because the chronic pain, the chronic pain cycle needs fear you can’t have chronic pain with their fear. Fear is like the oxygen, moving with fear you are in chronic pain. So day one is we’re addressing that fear, we know this case is going to become chronic or it’s going to be significantly reduced and then we empower the patient. So if a patient has a herniated disk and they have symptoms all the down their leg, so overwhelms, if we can just show them how they get the symptoms out of their leg and they can control that. And it’s usually as simple as you’re sitting there now, you have a herniated disk. You have symptoms all the way down to your calf. What happens if we change your posture and put a little curve in your back and, you know, “oh, it’s worse. My back hurts more.” But how does your leg feel? And a lot of times it’s called centralization. The symptoms get out of the cast and they go into the buttock And then the patient now has been able to control those symptoms. And giving someone control, reduces their fear, reduces their stress, and then they become empowered. So we want our patients telling us, “well, how much better do you think you are” when they tell us they’re 95% better, t6hat’s a lot more important than me saying than 95% better.

Saul Marquez:
Oh, for sure. For sure. And very interesting. So I’m sure a lot of people listening are wondering, someone I’m gonna ask.. so this is physical therapy. And, you know, you got to think it’s very physical. They’re involved. How do you do this virtually?

Aideen Turner:
Great question. The most important thing is the training again. So when our therapists get a new referral, they look at the past medical history. The patient fills out something briefly because we have to make sure that this the pain or the symptoms are mechanical. The only thing is physical therapists can treat mechanical symptoms.

Saul Marquez:
Right.

Aideen Turner:
So, for example, everything is first the back cancer to your internal organs. That’s not for us to diagnose that recently back to the physician. So we look at their past medical history and then we start asking them questions. We have to be able to change the pain for it to be mechanical. So if you have shoulder pain and it’s killing you, can I expect that pain by moving your neck? More than likely it’s your neck or your shoulder.

Saul Marquez:
…two weeks ago, by the way.

Aideen Turner:
You better call me next time.

Saul Marquez:
I will. Forgive me I will, I got to download this app because it’s an app, right?

Aideen Turner:
Yes. Just download the app and schedule an appointment.

Saul Marquez:
Oh man, I’m so excited.

Aideen Turner:
Yeah. Some Googling. Just contact us. So you have pain. If we can’t change it, then we get nervous. That’s the first step. We’ve got to prove that this is mechanical. So if I move your back, I want you to say “it kills me when I bend over. It hurts when I walk. I want to hear something. You’re moving or position triggers or makes your symptoms worse or better than I know I can treat it. Still more important to us. It’s not about hands on. We don’t want passive care. Passive care lengthens the ailment, we want to empower. So we’re going to figure out what’s the root cause of those symptoms. What’s triggering it? What’s making that pain or what, you know, that numbness? And then we’re going to teach the patient. This is what cause you have a herniated disk. So the disk just has a little cut in it and the liquid is coming out. So just like a tender knuckle, you want to apply overpressure. So we teach the patient how to do it. We watch them do it. We then send them a video of how to do it. And we’re available by e-mail for questions. So then, you know, we always follow up 24 hours later. So I give the patients their homework. So if it’s shoulder pain and if they can’t lift their arm overhead, their MRI says they have a rotator cuff tear. But quickly, my evaluation. They can’t lift their arm past 90 degrees. But we do a couple of movements there now. Go into one hundred and thirty degrees in two minutes. That means it’s a little piece of broken cartilage in there. That’s much easier to treat. We rarely treat rotator cuff tears. That diagnosis. It’s so overused. It’s the pain and inabilities, usually something else. So we give them an exercise we follow 24 hours, they must be better. So they must be telling us, “I feel a little bit better” if they’re no better. If they feel the same, we’re not nervous, but we hate the same because we’re not addressing the problem. If they’re worse, we don’t mind because worse at least where we explain that to them, you’re a little bit worse. We need to treat the exercise. We’re going in the wrong direction. So when we tell them ahead time, you must be better if you start to get worse. You e-mail us immediately and we’re just going to tweak the exercise if you stay the same, either you’re not doing the exercise and that’s how we can talk. We can find malinger is out pretty quickly or I’m not addressing the problem. I’m getting nervous. Is this coming from somewhere else? We know pretty quickly.

Saul Marquez:
Well, that’s very neat. I’m glad you helped me better understand that. And so tell us about… and look, there’s a lot of people listening. We all have pain here there, it comes it goes, for some, you know, some others it stays and there’s ways to address it. So this is very valuable. Just from an individual level. So I really appreciate your insight here, Aideen. How about on the enterprise level? You know, you were dealing with, you know, a lot of B2B folks listening in here. What kind of insights can you give them? They’re running an enterprise. They they want to, you know, help their employees be healthier. How have you helped other organizations?

Aideen Turner:
Sure. Well, you just said the magic words. The pain comes and goes. So the most important thing to realize. There’s three things that trigger pain. And this is what’s overlooked with traditional care. One is heat or thermal. It’s either chemical or mechanical that causes muscuskeletal problems. So when those businesses are sending their employers, I mean, the employees that are injured and are getting injections and medication. That’s what chemical pain. If your symptoms come and go. You only have shoulder pain when you reach overhead. You only have knee pain when you go up and down stairs. You’re back only hurts when you sit or bend. That’s not chemical pain. That’s mechanical pain. So I want to disrupt the treatment muscutal completely. We’ve got to stop sending these patients to clinicians that don’t know the difference between chemical and mechanical pain. Yes, you can give someone an injection to numb the area, but you’re not removing the problem. So if I hold my hand over a flame, that’s thermal pain, removing the flames. The most important part, not numbing my hands. So when there’s a mechanical problems, if you bend your finger all the way backwards, that hurts. The treatment is not injections, medication. The treatment is to remove that stress. So that’s 90% of mechanical pain. So when I… we do business to business, we want to get employees to the proper care fast. So instead of 12 to 17 visits, instead of getting MRI’s and surgeries, we want to get you to the proper clinician that knows how to target and recall the pain and remove it. Wal-Mart. Hats off to Lisa Wood. She’s going out with Wal-Mart. They’re really looking at centers of excellence. It’s all over the news. They’re able to reduce their back surgeries by 50%, which is great.

Saul Marquez:
Well that’s impressive. Yeah.

Aideen Turner:
I’ll… they take it up a notch. If you get to mechanically train commision getting reduced back surgeries by 80%. This is shown in our research. Not only are they going to reduce that pain through, also going to I mean, reduce that surgery I’m sorry, reduce the surgeries by 80%, not 50. They’re also going to address the pain. Now, that patient will go on to become chronic. So Wal-Mart don’t often they’re the first ones to look at that. It’s more than that. Now we’ve got to mix that person. Is they still a pain? They didn’t have surged, but they’re still in pain. Get them to the proper condition. Not a surgeon. Why do we go into surgery right away, get them to a mechanically trained clinician who’s to address their symptoms, reduce that pain. Empower them and get them back to full function. So that’s why with businesses, let’s look at your health care costs. Let’s look at what is the typical way your employee wakes up with pain. What is a typical process? Let’s eliminate that as soon as they have pain that skim to the right person to take a look at it and help them reduce it.

Saul Marquez:
Good message. And look, at the end of the day. There’s different, different thought processes around this. What you’re saying is not going to be very popular amongst hospitals and spine surgeons, but we’re not looking to be popular. We’re looking to improve outcomes. And that’s why I applaud you for your work. And, you know, and it’s not a one size fits all, but it’s definitely an opportunity to reduce, you know, I would say not the total spine surgery, but reduce the unnecessary surgeries. I think that’s critical.

Aideen Turner:
Yes. You know what? Our healthcare is the greatest healthcare, but it has some major flaws. Don’t expect us providers, TPA carriers that are making money off this broken system to fix it. The only person that many people that can fix it are the Wal-Marts, the people paying the bill. So we need it to be disrupted, completely overhauled. But don’t think your insurance carrier, TPA and your providers are going to fix it. So, yeah, you’re going to make all of us making money upset, but it needs to be changed.

Saul Marquez:
Now good message, Aideen. And so obviously, the passion is there. And the people listening are also passionate about making a difference. So thanks for infusing that into our chat today. Give us an example of when it hasn’t worked for you in your current business. What mistakes you guys make and how did you learn from it that’s made you a better?

Aideen Turner:
Sure, I make mistakes every day, all day long, we’re making mistakes, but that’s how you learn and that’s how you get better. If you don’t make mistakes, then you’re not improving. So I don’t think it’s a mistake that’s the problem. How you handle that. So if you have a customer that’s upset how you know when that customer over. But my biggest mistake that you know that heart that’s your heart that’s thinking it’s in your heart had to do with early days of building the app. I spent a lot of money. It was overseas and I really thought I had signed up with the wrong company. And there’s no legal I can’t sue a different country. It all worked out, but I definitely lost a lot of stress. But you learn also. And if I didn’t try that, I wouldn’t be where I am today. So I don’t mind making mistakes. It’s what you do. How do you correct that mistake and how do you learn from it?

Saul Marquez:
And so in this particular situation, and I want leverage from these learnings, rights for for the listeners, there’s a lot of people trying to build platforms. Right. And so what what what happened out there? What do you wish would have gone better? And what did you learn and how did you end up doing it?

Aideen Turner:
Well, it’s something I’ve never done and it’s hard to get advice from…

Saul Marquez:
Yeah.

Aideen Turner:
You’re you’re having something done in a different country because it’s a third of the cost. But our traditions, our personalities, our language is different. So what I was saying to them, they were saying something different to me. And I think we just are just a cultural difference.

Saul Marquez:
Yeah.

Aideen Turner:
And what do you learn? You still got to put your foot in the water. You just still have to take chances. You just double check everything. But we still got to jump in there. I mean, there’s no who knows it. I was just getting lucky that it worked out. But if it didn’t, I would have been out of some money and I would have continued and tried somebody else. You just got to keep trying.

Saul Marquez:
Yeah. Yeah. Still, if it’s as if it’s somebody that has an established business that’s looking to get an app go and or somebody that has an app as a business and they’re early on. Would you suggest that they pay a little bit more or go to the outside. What would you suggest to them?

Aideen Turner:
Sure. If you have the money. Absolutely. If you can get the backing by an angel seed funding, of course it saves a lot of stress. But if you’re a true entrepreneur and you’re just bootstrapping it, you’ve got to take a bigger chance.

Saul Marquez:
Yeah.

Aideen Turner:
So the only way I was going to make it was to go overseas.

Saul Marquez:
To do that, yeah.

Aideen Turner:
Yes, I would taking a bigger risk, but it’s a bigger reward. I’m 100 percent still owner of the company.

Saul Marquez:
Right.

Aideen Turner:
So…

Saul Marquez:
Yeah, those are the things you have to weigh.

Aideen Turner:
Yes. Yes, you have the funds. Yes. Save your strength. Reduce the stress.

Saul Marquez:
And just get it done in the country,right.

Aideen Turner:
Yeah get it done in your own country.

Saul Marquez:
Oh man. Now I appreciate you sharing that listeners. A lot to learn from Aideen and the success she’s had. Well, what about the other side of the coin Aideen? What’s one of the proudest leadership experiences you’ve had with with your company?

Aideen Turner:
I’m going to say proudest moment versus leadership, and that was when someone else made me disrupt probably five year was five years ago. It was why I started my company. I was I owned a very busy clinic in Pennsylvania. We saw a lot of spinal injuries and a patient that had been with us two years prior caught in a panic, he had throughout his back again got a bed and was begging for help. I got on the phone. I said, “you know what? Just have your wife drive into our clinic. You know, we can definitely help you.” And he pleaded. He said, “I can’t get out of bed. She can’t get me in the car.” So I told him, “you need to call an ambulance. You need to go to the E.R.” But he refused. He said “that’s what happened two years before and I ended up having to failed to back surgeries and finally got to your clinic. I’m not doing that again. You have to help me.” Well, he meant me to face time. And I was like, “I would lose my license. I’m not legally allowed to stay you. I mean this is five years ago. What did I know?” I’m like I’m so but he was a great referral source. I sort of treated all its friends and family. So I jumped on the phone and really thought I was doing something illegal. Quickly, eight times less than five minutes on the phone. Now, before I go on the phone, mechanically, transmission knows he can’t get out of bed. He’s either shifted he’s bent, either right or left. So I just need to know. Are you still to the right or the left? And I try to have a look in the mirror, but he’s like, you just need to face time me. So I quickly got to want to “You shift it this way. I just lie in bed and do this exercise.” Long story short, four days later, he’s 85% better and back to work. Again. I was busy, so I didn’t think anything of it. But he sent in the baskets and kept calling me. He’s the one that made me disrupt. He took me out of my comfort zone and he kept saying, “you need to do this. You need to go where the patient needs you.” So I was like, “I don’t have time.” So I started looking to telehealth a little bit. And then I was busy in King of Prussia Pennsylvania it’s kind of busy during rush hour. So I have a lot of no shows at the last minute. And one executive, she had canceled her first visit three times. And I heard the secretary. “No, no, she don’t reschedule her.” That’s it. You know, she’s blocking our schedule. And I stopped for a second. If you don’t give me the phone, so I jump on the phone, I said, “listen by chance, would you be interested in a trial of telehealth?” Explain to her what it was. We’re just going to do basically a glorified face time just to see we’re just, you know, a pilot. She said “absolutely.” She loved it. We got her better. And then I realized, he is right. People and we need to go where the person is. We need to the patient is should be our focus. So that’s how my business started. It was not my brainchild. Some of it.

Saul Marquez:
I love it. It’s great. It’s great. And now, you know, I got to tell you is it’s. I got goosebumps with your story because I just you know, I saw I see it happening every single day. And so kudos to you. I would say it’s not a disruption you did. It’s a transformation. It’s more than disruption, you know. Disruption is this temporary stopping of something, transformation, you change completely and that’s what you did.

Aideen Turner:
Patient made me change after I didn’t want to.

Saul Marquez:
Awesome. Awesome. I love it. And so what’s one of the most exciting things that you’re working on today?

Aideen Turner:
Total rewards. That’s where we should be. That’s where we get you started. So I’m really excited about a couple of things that looks like… hopefully that will happen in the future. And again, that is just being where we want to be. So if someone’s in pain instantly or pretty quickly, they can be connected with someone that can quickly evaluate them and tell them what’s wrong. This is what this is all you need to do. I’m really excited about that to transform how we’re treating musculoskeletal problems to be on the forefront of that.

Saul Marquez:
I love it. Yeah. So we’re here to the lightning round. So we’re gonna do a couple of questions. Lightning round style, followed by a book that you recommended to listeners. You ready, Aideen?

Aideen Turner:
Sure.

Saul Marquez:
All right. What’s the best way to improve healthcare outcomes?

Aideen Turner:
Look at the true data with humility, not arrogance.

Saul Marquez:
What’s the biggest…

Aideen Turner:
You look at…

Saul Marquez:
Yeah. No, no, go ahead. You wanna expand on it?

Aideen Turner:
I’ll keep talking. No. Good.

Saul Marquez:
What’s the biggest mistake or pitfall to avoid?

Aideen Turner:
Of course, keeping with the status quo.

Saul Marquez:
How do you stay relevant as an organization despite constant change?

Aideen Turner:
Embrace change. You can never stay stagnant in healthcare.

Saul Marquez:
What’s the one area of focus that drives everything at your organization?

Aideen Turner:
Patient first.

Saul Marquez:
What book would you recommend?

Aideen Turner:
My favorite book. It’s an oldie. A Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl.

Saul Marquez:
That’s a heavy one.

Aideen Turner:
I have… with physical therapy, he’s the one that started visualization and sports psychology. So whenever we’re talking about psychology of injury and healing, he’s the king, he started it all.

Saul Marquez:
He started sports psychology. Frankly?

Aideen Turner:
He isn’t. Yeah. So if you want mummify his Bogot, it’s so short, but he mentions about American soldiers that were in the concentration camp as well and they were golfing in their head. They never golf before, but they just did. I mean, to stay sane, they were just doing rounds of golf in their head when they came to the concentration camp. They were these phenomenal boxers. So the whole logo therapy, the whole visualization. Back in day, Mary Lou Retton was one of the first to do it, but she imagined her perfect 10 over or even down to her mom’s reaction.

Saul Marquez:
Yeah.

Aideen Turner:
So this is the heart and soul of sports psychology. It’s Viktor Frankl.

Saul Marquez:
No kidding. Wow. That’s a lot.

Aideen Turner:
Should be for injury and healing. Yeah. So it should be for us too.

Saul Marquez:
Very interesting. That book, folks, if you haven’t read it, how? I mean, you got to read it. If you have a reading list, put this one on the top because it’s a good one.

Aideen Turner:
Yeah.

Saul Marquez:
I appreciate the recommendation, Aideen. It is gut wrenching, but at the same time shows you the potential of being human.

Aideen Turner:
Yes. And the importance of love more than anything else. Not how healthy. I mean it comes down to your love of something of someone else determines how you’re… it’s just your longevity. You know, if you’re in a concentration camp, the ones that survived weren’t the healthiest ones. The little lady survived because she thought that her child was waiting for on the other side. And that gives me goosebumps.

Saul Marquez:
Oh, my gosh. Yeah, me too. Me too. Great recommendation, folks. You know where to find all this awesome. All the awesome resources outcomesrocket.health in the search bar type in Aidean. And you’re going to find all of the things that we’ve discussed today. A full transcript. The short notes, links to the book’s links to her app. Definitely something that you want to check out before we conclude Aideen. This has been really fun, by the way. Thank you for your thoughtfulness. Hey, I want to ask you.

Aideen Turner:
Thank you.

Saul Marquez:
I’m working on redoing this thing and I’ve done the show in different ways. But what do you think of the lightning round? Should I keep it or should I ditch it?

Aideen Turner:
I like lightning around. Absolutely, keep it.

Saul Marquez:
How about the questions, you like the questions or should I ask different ones?

Aideen Turner:
I like the question.

Saul Marquez:
You like the questions?

Aideen Turner:
Yeah.

Saul Marquez:
It’s something I’m debating. And I’m you know, like I said, I’ve been doing the show for three years Aideen and it’s just been I mean, so much fun. I also feel like it’s important to innovate. But I also like I feel like maybe I’d been forcing the innovation. Maybe it’s good as it is. So I don’t know. I’m open to your thoughts, Aideen if you maybe at a later date want to give them to me and listeners, I’m open to your thoughts as well. You like what you’re hearing? Let me know if you want to change it up, want me to change it up? I’m also open to changing it up. But anyway, regardless, I’ll move on to say Aideen. You’ve been incredible. The work that you’re doing is inspiring. Give the listeners a call to action, a closing thought and then the best place where they could get in touch with or follow you.

Aideen Turner:
Sure. So, of course, my closing closing thought is our healthcare has some of the greatest advancements, but also has many broken parts. And in order to fix it, we need to transform it more than disrupt it. And I can easily be reached at my our website is virtualphysicaltherapists.com or my LinkedIn Aideen. I think if you Google that, there’s not many Aideens in the world. And our main number is 878-332-2033.

Saul Marquez:
Love it. Make the call, folks, pick her up. And yeah Aideen that’s why I actually said that when they go to outcomesrocket.health. They could just type in Aideen because I haven’t had another Aideen, you are the first Aideen on the podcast.

Aideen Turner:
I’m like Madonna. I don’t need my last name.

Saul Marquez:
You don’t even need the last name. Great. As so listeners just take the leap. Check out what ADA and her team are up to to help improve your health, but also your company’s health and your employees health. Aideen, thanks again for joining us.

Aideen Turner:
Thank you, Saul.

Saul Marquez:
All right, folks, I found myself asking Aideen a ton of questions and I thought, man, this is selfish. I got to share this with everybody. So I’m here back I’m on the air with Aideen. And I was asking her questions because I if you remember during the podcast as sharing about my shoulder pain and she gave me a fix. And then we got into some questions that I wanted you to know about, too. So Aideen has it work? Do you take HSA? Help give the listeners a review. And how can they start using you guys? Because I would say I was very interested. And maybe you all will be too.

Aideen Turner:
Sure. So right now we do self pay, which is eighty nine dollars and visits on average for self-pay patients because they’re super motivated. It’s one to two visits. So we’re going to walk you through. We’re going to give you all the tools, the exercises you need to get yourself better. And then we follow up, you know, to pay a couple of questions. We follow up. The exercise isn’t working. Someone back down takes off or not. If we haven’t made a positive, if we even reduce your symptoms in some way, it’s a money back guarantee. Now, we also have…

Saul Marquez:
And by the way the first time I heard that I was like “what?” All right. So I just had to.

Aideen Turner:
In the medical field on the worker’s comp side, we do bill traditional hicks up fifteen hundred form and the cost is double or triple because again, people get a lot of people are going to hate me, but it costs us a lot of money to finally get paid. It takes us months and a lot of legwork when we bill because of the denials and everything else.

Saul Marquez:
You get a letter in your administrative costs. I get it.

Aideen Turner:
Yes. So I want to go back to simple straight line billing. This is how much we charge. This is how much we get paid. And the story. So we like to self pay side.

Saul Marquez:
Love it. And…

Aideen Turner:
And the HSA…

Saul Marquez:
No HSA, right.

Aideen Turner:
Not not that maybe we haven’t even looked into that. So now that we go into it. Yeah. So that was a little bit more. It’s a little bit more complicated. The insurance carriers. There’s something called parity law. And that means that they’re passing these laws that insurance carriers have to pay the same amount for telehealth as they would with traditional brick and mortar treatment.

Saul Marquez:
Oh interesting.

Aideen Turner:
So that means we do have the bill on the hook for fifteen hundred form. So it is going to cost more to the insurance carrier. But it’s so gray and we we’ve tried it. We dabbled in a little bit and we just spent months trying to get paid.

Saul Marquez:
Yeah.

Aideen Turner:
So..

Saul Marquez:
I get that.

Aideen Turner:
We wait. We wait for someone else to spend a lot of time and energy on it. So we’re kind of on the back burner with that one. But we will start looking into HSA as well. It’s just we’ll see how it works out.

Saul Marquez:
Yeah, but it’s eighty nine bucks, right.

Aideen Turner:
Eighty nine dollars.

Saul Marquez:
Listen, I mean…

Aideen Turner:
Money back guarantee.

Saul Marquez:
If you have pain, just do it. I mean it’s like a no brainer. And okay. So you go to the app store and what do you look for?

Aideen Turner:
Sure. So Google Play and the Apple Store you go. It’s called virtual physical therapists VPT.

Saul Marquez:
So just type in VPT.

Aideen Turner:
You can type in the whole thing virtual physical and then as soon as you type in therapists, then it’s going to pop up. It’s a little blue and white logo. It’s a little person with the Wi-Fi symbol over their head.

Saul Marquez:
I see it.

Aideen Turner:
That’s what I’m going to say.

Saul Marquez:
I see it. Okay, cool. I see it on there it is. You just get it. It’s free to download and then you just get started.

Aideen Turner:
Yes,.

Saul Marquez:
This is awesome. Aideen, thanks for doing this kind of tag on session in the back. I just wanted to share with the listeners because, hey, you probably have back pain and you’re driving listening to us. Pull over. Don’t do it while you’re driving. And then you can get started. So Aideen just want to say thanks again.

Aideen Turner:
Thank you, Saul.

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