LabOps Leadership_Ornella Kossi: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.
Kerri Anderson:
By building a platform to share challenges, thoughts from leaders, and network together, the LabOps Leadership Podcast is elevating LabOps professionals as well as the industry as a whole.
Samantha Black:
With the intent of unlocking the power of LabOps, we deliver unique insights to execute the mission at hand, to standardize LabOps, and empower LabOps leaders.
Kerri Anderson:
I’m Kerri Anderson.
Samantha Black:
And I’m Samantha Black. Welcome to the LabOps Leadership Podcast.
Samantha Black:
So we’re here today with Ornella Kossi, who is a lab operations associate at BioLabs at the Heidelberg site in Germany. So thank you for joining us from across the world.
Ornella Kossi:
Thank you so much for having me, it’s great. I was looking for this session all day long.
Samantha Black:
Hey, great, well, Ornella, can you just start off by telling us a little bit about your background and how you got to where you are today?
Ornella Kossi:
Yeah, of course. So I think it all started in middle school when I got very excited and curious about biology and, you know, lab and science. And in Germany, you know we had the, we have the possibility to change to a more specific high school, as you know, we graduate from middle school. And I decided then that I want to go at the biotechnology high school which made it possible for me to know, for me to really get into biology, chemistry. So then I worked in the lab already in the, in high school, and after high school, I was more interested in the practical side of science. And so that’s why I did an apprenticeship at the University of Hohenheim in Stuttgart after high school. So it’s a mixture of practical modules and theoretical modules and yeah, so that’s how I got my, a degree. And then after that, I moved to Heidelberg to work at the, at HI-STEM, which is a part of the German Cancer Research Centre here, and yeah, that’s, that’s how I got here. And after five, four, and a half years I wanted to move on and work more on the lab organization, operational side of the lab and move to BioLabs in April 2022.
Samantha Black:
So yeah, that’s awesome, because I think you said in Germany, right, they, the education system set up a little bit differently. And so you got the opportunity to work at the bench, right? The first experiences were at the bench and then you decided that you wanted to go into a support role. So I’m just kind of wondering what made you want to do that? What made you want to do the switch?
Ornella Kossi:
I think I saw the importance of the supporting system in the lab, and I saw my strength being there to support the scientists during their research. And, you know, when COVID hit and the amount of effort you needed to put into lab operations due to longer delivery times and difficulties in our resources, there was just so much need, so much need in good lab operations. And I really did this in my previous lab and then chose this might be my strength. This is where I can give some higher value to the lab, and that’s why, how I decided to change to lab operations more in the kind of organizational part of it than actual bench work.
Samantha Black:
Yeah, and you’re in a unique position right now working at BioLabs because you’re able to not only help one group, you’re able to help a lot of different groups. So could you tell us a little bit about BioLabs and what they’re doing to maybe generally help accelerate, literally accelerate these startups that they work with?
Ornella Kossi:
Yeah, so, you know, the concept of BioLabs is very exciting. When I read about BioLabs, I think a year from, it was a year ago, yeah, I got so excited because it is exactly what I wanted to have when I was working in research. So what we do is we help young companies that are in the critical stage where they’re very early, sometimes just newly founded out of the universities or research institutes, and we help them by facilitating the growth with lab space. But we’re more than just, you know, provider of physical lab space. We give them access to the infrastructure, to the community, we give them access to big pharma partners that are our partners as well, and help us strategically on site as well and mentor us as well. You know, when there’s a young company, they have so much to learn and they have such a long way to go. That can be sometimes very rocky and tough, and you know, them having access to people who have done it before and having access to people who could really guide them through this difficult stages of an early company, it’s so great. And yeah, we take part as lab operations at the lab, as a part of the lab operations teams, we take part of the daily business of managing the lab, taking care of equipment, and making sure that the lab runs smoothly so that the scientists and the companies can just focus on what is very important to them, which is their science.
Samantha Black:
Yeah.
Kerri Anderson:
Yeah, that has to be really interesting to be able to be involved with a variety of companies.
Ornella Kossi:
Yeah, exactly. There are so many different companies from different backgrounds. And what I like about this position is that I just get to see a bit of everything. And we have the entrepreneurial side, we have the science, we have the more business development kind of science side as well, which I really like.
Kerri Anderson:
Actually leads me into, my next question is, in lab operations, there are several areas that we work in. What is your favorite? I know you just mentioned business development, but are there any other aspects as well in operations you really like and enjoy?
Ornella Kossi:
So I would say it’s both actually, you know, I like the business development kind of part of it, but what I actually really like is, you know, the daily business to just make sure when companies are, you know, in the lab and they have a need to be there, the person they talk to and to be the person they ask for advice, how do I, you know, fix that, run this machine. My fax isn’t working, I have some struggle, struggle here. Can you help with that? I think that’s the part I like the most, to be there to help on the daily business, but also enable the lab to run by making sure we have the right equipment, making sure we can meet the demands of our companies, and to make sure that we have the equipments that are very state of the art. Because we have companies here who are doing science that might be avant-garde and that, where you really need the best equipment that you can get your hands on up there and to facilitate that, I think both sides of the spectrum are very interesting for me.
Samantha Black:
Yeah, and I think that it’s interesting because you’re working with such young companies and they need that guidance and mentorship. I think one question I had was you mentioned COVID and we’ve talked a lot about that, but that’s, for a lot of like older established companies, they were doing the heavy lifting there on making the drugs. So, you know, obviously, there were ripple effects, you know, down on the procurement and supply chain. So what was the impact of that for BioLabs and for these small organizations? Because, you know, we know that a lot of things stopped, but a lot of times in science, you can’t stop completely or you’ll ruin ten years of prior work, you know, you have to keep some things going. So I’m maybe wondering what that was like working through COVID and making sure the lights are still on for these smaller companies who are trying to get established. That must have been a really difficult time for them.
Ornella Kossi:
So when COVID hit, I was still working at the German Cancer Research Center, not working in BioLabs, but I’m pretty sure it was the same ripple effect in, where I worked previously as well as in BioLabs. So what I could tell from my experience is that, you know, it needed much more micromanagement because the supply chain issues just made it really hard to get your hands on paper, to get your hands on, you know, the daily consumables that we were so used to just order and get them the next couple of days. So now you were, we were, you know, asked and challenged to find substitutes or to find a way around chemicals that couldn’t be delivered. So I think with BioLabs, what I could and can tell you from the experiences I had the last couple of months, but as well what my colleagues told me, this is where we give the value because we take care of that. We make sure that the lab is still running and that the necessary chemicals are there for the companies to run, for example, that fax machine. We take care of the fax flow, for example. So it’s our task to get our hands on that and to make sure that they can run that. Or if a microscope breaks down and there’s a piece that needs to be replaced, we make sure that we contact the respective person that will then come and take care of that. So I think that we, as well, have buffered that a lot for the companies so that they are not completely hit by the effect of supply chain issues and, from COVID, so yeah, I think that’s great that we can do that and we can give this value to the ecosystem.
Kerri Anderson:
Yeah, and that is a vital part of science. I mean, it keeps the scientists on being able to focus on the data and actually doing science, and by being able to be that support role, it’s really important on moving things forward.
Ornella Kossi:
Exactly.
Kerri Anderson:
So one thing that’s one way of us moving science forward and faster. What’s something else you’re seeing that lab Operations is doing to help bring drugs to the market faster?
Ornella Kossi:
So I would say the critical role that LabOps plays in, you know, enabling new drugs on the market is to make sure that, so talking from my experience in the research institute I was working as well as in BioLabs, usually, you work with very precious samples. Usually, you work with samples where you might not get a second chance to work with or to gain data from. So, for example, if you have a patient sample, it’s usually time-critical protocol that you need to run through, right? So if you have a good lab that runs smoothly, the chance that you might lose that sample or the chance that, you know, you might get the biggest value of what the little sample that you have, there are so many new machines out there, equipment out there on the market that work with very small sample sizes, and that makes it possible to have to get more data out of very simple and little biopsies, liquid biopsies, for example. And so I think if you have a lab that enables that by equipping the lab with the necessary equipment, but also a lab that is well organized and there is not a lot of friction in your protocol, I think that this is the critical part where LabOps can enable good science and good drug development down the line. Does it make sense?
Samantha Black:
Yeah, no, absolutely. I couldn’t agree more.
Kerri Anderson:
Yeah, I think a lab that has amazing technology, I mean, the technology has improved so much in recent years, especially, and just continues to do so.
Ornella Kossi:
I think that it really comes down to the technology that you can use on-site that makes it possible for you, whether you’re getting the information you want from your sample, from your data, or not. And I think that’s where it gets really critical when you talk about target discovery when we’re talking about drug discovery, protein interference, that is so important down the line when you’re working on drug development. There are so many very avant-garde and state-of-the-art equipments right now that are just a must-have in many of labs that are expensive, of course. But yeah, I think we, talking about lab operations, I think we can make a very good job there supporting that for the scientists and for other research and institutes. And that’s what we are doing at BioLabs, actually, we really try to work with partners that enable us to place this equipment on site and to take that financial burden away from the young companies. So with our partners, they can then place those more avant-garde and more expensive equipments so that the companies do not need to use their funding, the money they get from the first round funding or second round, they don’t need to use that to buy those equipments. They can just use it by working at BioLabs and, you know, focus what they have on resources on their science.
Kerri Anderson:
Yeah, I think it’s incredible that BioLabs is doing this because it does give those opportunities to startups that they might not have otherwise.
Ornella Kossi:
Exactly.
Kerri Anderson:
That’s an even, yeah, I wouldn’t say even lab operations, that’s something I often don’t see startups hire until they’re a mid-sized company and they start to grow, but it’s such a key role in efficiency and organization, and so it’s incredible that you’re able to offer this to these startups.
Ornella Kossi:
Yeah, yeah, definitely, and that’s why I wanted to work at BioLabs because I saw the need of a structure like that here. When I was working in my previous lab, I saw very good scientists and great ideas. So I really saw how you need to be brave to start a company, you need to have the right structures to support that, especially if you’re doing it the first time. And I could see that, you know, the scientists were a bit more reserved to the idea to start their own company just because they didn’t really know where to start and the financial burden of equipping a lab is not little. I think equipping a lab you’re at least $300,000 $500,000 or years that you need to take to do that. And so I think, you know, when we can take that away from the companies, that’s great.
Samantha Black:
So on that note, I’m being a Debbie Downer today because I’m asking all the negative questions.
Ornella Kossi:
Please go ahead.
Samantha Black:
What are some of the challenges of working with so many different companies? So you’re the central hub for all this equipment, but, you know, I can imagine that if you have one machine and three different people trying to use that consistently, that could be a unique challenge that a lab or a company just own their own equipment, they just have to worry about their own team. But when you have multiple teams trying to use equipment, you know, I can imagine that would be, that would have its own unique set of challenges associated with that. So I’m just curious, that’s one example, but like, what are some of the more the things that you’ve struggled with in working with a lot of different teams in a small space?
Ornella Kossi:
That’s actually a good question and BioLabs has experience with that. So in the US we, BioLabs is, I think we are having our 13th or 14th site now, I don’t know, though you know we have some experience working in those structures where you have a lot of companies in shared lab. So what we have are of course different calendars, for example, the one of Elemental Machines that we’re using where you can book your equipment, but what we see, and this is very good thing for us to see, is that when the companies grow and have the financial capability to do so, they will buy their own equipment at some point, right? So we have shared labs as well as private labs on the sites. So usually when a company is growing and they have the financial resources, they just go to a private space and buy their own equipment there and use it as they need to use it. We can see that they need to use it so we can manage that in this kind of manner as well. And I think, you know, usually, we have kind of, how to say, I think, so the way you can take out friction in a shared lab is by making sure that you take care of the equipment itself. So if you have equipment that breaks down every second time someone is using it, then you have a line of people waiting there to be able to use the machine, but if you get a good introduction into the machine, if you get a good introduction, and give a good learning experience for the people who are using it the first time, usually you take the friction away.
Samantha Black:
Totally, yeah, no, I think that’s a good way to look at it, and I think a good reminder for all the scientists out there, like why it’s so important to take care of the equipment and not just use the equipment and kill it, you know, you’ve got to, you have to take care of it. And so I think that’s an underappreciated task, but I think it’s underlying so important for everything that they do for the science, so, yeah.
Ornella Kossi:
Exactly, so, you know, I think sometimes, you know, you will, if you know what you’re doing, you’ll be fast with the equipment, but if you’re just not, if you’re just trying out or you do not, I think it comes down to the culture as well that we have in BioLabs. Everyone is very polite, they try to, you know, not take necessarily a long time than they would need on the equipment. So they clean after they’re done with the equipment. So I think it’s the culture that you cultivate as well as the lab manager or as a LabOps team. How do you talk with the people that are in the lab, which examples you give by taking care of the daily operations as well? You can, we can manage that habit.
Kerri Anderson:
So I’m thinking you mentioned that you have, I believe, 14 sites now in the US for BioLabs?
Ornella Kossi:
Yeah, and we’re growing.
Kerri Anderson:
So I’m wondering, how do you guys share ideas throughout the organization? Just because I’ve seen some companies that are actually very different between each site but I think BioLabs, from everything I’ve heard from everyone, you know, you all run things kind of similar. So what are the operations like throughout the different sites? I’m not sure how many you’ve seen of them, but from what you’ve seen so far.
Ornella Kossi:
So we adapt the labs to the need of the specific site. So every ecosystem comes with the specific needs and the constellation of the companies on-site is important for the equipment we place. Of course, we have like a set up of core equipment we want to place, but if there is a need of, a critical need, critical number of demand for an equipment, then we place that if we have the possibility to do so. So this is how we respond to different needs. And we have a variety of equipment on site which makes it possible for the companies to get their hands on what they actually need for the research.
Samantha Black:
That’s interesting. So you just, you have like a set starting point and then you have that everywhere, and then to, based on who’s who your tenants are, you have different equipment based on who they are and that mix of people. That’s interesting.
Ornella Kossi:
Yes, it’s a mixture of what the companies demand. Sometimes we have different partners per site as well, so it depends on that as well. You know, for example, if we have a company in Germany that would like to work with BioLabs and place the equipment there, then we have that there and we wouldn’t have that, for example, not a site where the company is in place. So it’s a dynamic process that evolves throughout the time that we are establishing the site, but as we are running the site as well.
Samantha Black:
I think having that flexibility, right, it’s not one size fits all. It’s being adaptable to the situation that you have on each site.
Ornella Kossi:
Exactly, and I think that’s what I was talking about, about culture and about the mindset that you bring to a site. We want to, the site to be dynamic. And, you know, because we have young companies there that are coming from the university that should feel that it’s possible to, we want to cultivate this kind of mindset and culture where things can be dynamic, things can be changed, you know, not one solution fits all, wo we can respond to different demands. We can respond to a growing culture, growing site.
Kerri Anderson:
What would you say is the biggest lesson you’ve learned so far working at BioLabs?
Ornella Kossi:
Oh, wow, that’s a very good question. There are so many. I’ve learned so much that I would say it’s a lesson that goes beyond BioLabs or just my position in BioLabs, but I think it’s a lesson that I really need in BioLabs, because usually, we have a small team on site that takes care of the science. So I think when working in every position, whether it’s PD, or LabOps, or marketing and communication, everyone having a good sense of responsibility and leadership, even if you’re not an official leading position. I think every employee of a company has ownership in, of what they’re doing and just having a sense of responsibility, having a sense of being the person who pushes a project or being the person who makes it possible and bringing your idea to fruition. I think if you can own that and if you can, if you’re not afraid of sometimes risking the status quo or questioning the status quo and, yeah, being your own leader in some sense, you know, I think this is what I’ve learned in BioLabs, that it’s possible that this is the way to work well, in an organization.
Samantha Black:
I think that’s great, I love that, and I think it, again, reinforces a theme that we always see, which is like it’s all about people in the end of the day, right? Like it’s, you know, everybody is part of a team and you know how you fit into that team and make the team better is always, how, we always somehow end up back at that point. So I love that.
Ornella Kossi:
Yeah, exactly.
Samantha Black:
Yeah, and so I guess I have two questions left. My first one is forward-looking. So you’re in LabOps now, and one thing that we’ve talked to a lot of different people about is the career path and what that might look like because this is kind of a newer field, and so it’s not a clear path for everybody. And so I’m just kind of curious what you’re thinking for the future, what you’re working towards, and is it staying in LabOps? Is it something bigger or different? Just kind of wondering where your head is at, because I think people could really learn from you and what you’re thinking.
Ornella Kossi:
Yeah, so I would say usually throughout our lives we have different roles and different positions, and sometimes, you know, you have a strength in one position and you learn something in one position and in the other where you can bring what you’ve learned to fruition and bring what you’ve learned to give value back to the new role. So for me, what I would like to do is more towards general operations customer experience, because I just like working with people and like working with partners and having the connection to the ecosystem or to the people who actually make it possible that we can be here in Heidelberg right now. And so I think this is what I would tell people who are looking for some career path. In our organization, we have, one of my really great colleagues that I have, started as a lab technician in a previous job and is now a VP of operations and client experience. So I think there are so many things, so many paths to go when, you know, even starting with the lab, it’s not just one role that fits all. So in change, you can learn, you can build up to what you’ve learned in your time in the lab and take that experience and place it and move it to newer roles and use it there to facilitate maybe something new.
Kerri Anderson:
Yeah, I think that is the exciting part of lab operations, or there are so many paths that you can go from it.
Ornella Kossi:
Yeah, exactly. Let’s see what the future holds.
Samantha Black:
100%, and then the last question is just if people want to follow you or connect with you, keep up with you, how can they connect and find you?
Ornella Kossi:
So on LinkedIn, I think it’s the best way to find BioLabs, to find us and the whole team here in Heidelberg as well as the whole global team as well. It’s Ornella Kossi on LinkedIn. And our site, BioLabs Heidelberg, we post there basically every day, every second day, every other day so, and follow us. There’s a lot happening here in Heidelberg. We have, our future home that we’re moving to. We have great events, new companies joining us. So it’s great, it will be exciting.
Samantha Black:
And so that, those links will be tagged in the episode notes so everybody can find you easily that way, too.
Ornella Kossi:
Yeah, I’m looking for it.
Samantha Black:
Awesome, Ornella, this has been a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much for joining us. We wish you the best…
Ornella Kossi:
Yeah, great, great questions, and I liked your approach to the whole lab operation. It could look dry and boring from the outside, you know? But it’s a very interesting field, and I’m happy that you’re shining so much light on that field and that you’re giving the lab operation, that you’re giving them some, these topics, faces, and stories of people that actual people that are working there.
Samantha Black:
Yeah, well, thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate it.
Ornella Kossi:
Yeah, thank you.
Kerri Anderson:
Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the LabOps Leadership Podcast. We hope you enjoyed today’s guest.
Samantha Black:
For show notes, resources, and more information about LabOps Unite, please visit us at LabOps.Community/Podcast. This show is powered by Elemental Machines.
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