Six Ways to Market Your Practice with Stewart Gandolf, CEO of Healthcare Success

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Outcomes Rocket Podcast - Stewart Gandolf

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Six Ways to Market Your Practice with Steward Gandolf, CEO of Healthcare Success

: [00:00:01] Welcome to the outcomes rocket podcast, where we inspire collaborative thinking, improved outcomes, and business success with today's most successful and inspiring healthcare leaders and influencers. And now your host Saul Marquez

Saul Marquez: [00:00:18] Outcomes rocket listeners, welcome back once again to the outcomes rocket where we chat with today's most inspiring and successful health care leaders if you like what you're listening on the show. Please go to outcomesrocket.com/reviews and you'll be able to rate and review us on Apple podcasts. This is super huge for us because it's the feedback we need to make the show even more amazing. So without further ado I want to introduce my outstanding guest. His name is Stewart Gandolf. He's the CEO of health care success, a medical advertising and Internet marketing agency. His focus is helping you, my listeners get your marketing and advertising in line so that you could achieve your goals. Want to open it up to you Mr. Gandolf to fill in any of the gaps in the introduction. Welcome to the show.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:01:14] That was great Saul thank you. I love doing that stuff and I love doing our own podcast so it's great to be a guest on it's fun it's a lot less pressure from me. I can just talk which is awesome.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:01:26] Believe me I can talk you actually to a pretty good job. I would say that our firm exists to help our providers promote primarily defined as doctors and hospitals attract the patients they want and so there's lots of marketing companies I've worked for great big ones I've worked for smaller ones I've done other things in my life but at the end of the day a lot of people do marketing because they want to do a great image. They want to have a great brand. They want to be very creative and we do all those things and we like those things too. That's not what makes us special. Our whole philosophy everything we do is driven towards attracting patients in fact on our conference room wall we have our logo along with our tagline and our tagline is scientific marketing that delivers patients and periodically in meetings with my team I'll point to the wall. It's like guys work here. They all say okay we're going. So it really is all of it. So again it's with to help doctors and hospitals profitably attract new patients.

Saul Marquez: [00:02:22] That's really great. Thanks for filling in the gaps there. And Stewart one of the things that I'm curious about why did you decide to stay out of all areas in the world land on health care.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:02:32] It's funny that's why I say I don't know if anybody ever asked me that question at home actually kind of went down when I work when I first came out to California worked client side for a while and there was actually in San Diego I think it was sharp or scripts I forget which one but it had a baby and a stork statue out in front of it.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:02:52] I was working in financial services I worked with a lot of big banks on Citi and chase and all those kinds of people back when they were completely gold plated names back in the day. But at anyway, I used to always think well that's interesting hospital marketing and I didn't think about it ever again. Flash forward a decade and a half I was working at Joe tops which is a huge ad agency. It's one of the biggest in the world and our spoke. I was working on an account called Bally's Total Fitness which used to have a bunch of health clubs chains like Cher and cineaste Heather Locklear were our spokespeople. I remember the Bentley. Yeah. Okay great. So anyway I was a former rider of mine. At that point you know I did that there and I was kind of through with advertising it's playing that game at least to me was pretty political and it just I'm kind of a stay independent in my thinking and I thought it would be. So I took a break from advertising and a former writer I knew. I reached out to him and said hey that's firm I'm working with one does marketing for doctors and I'm like, man does anybody do that really. And this seems sort of you know I was my buddy at Walter as a piece of an 80 million dollar budget. This is back and you know a couple of decades ago back when 80 million dollars was a lot of money right. And worked for private practice doctors seemed crazy to me. And so I ended up accepting the job and worked there for about a decade took a break from health care and then years later we started this firm so we've been around for about 11 years for him and I love what I do today happens to be a terrific day. We've had good news like all around the board. So it's it's good that that.

Saul Marquez: [00:04:27] What was the good news.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:04:28] We actually signed three new clients today. So they've got quite a week for us already.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:04:34] Thank you. We've just signed about a month and a half ago. Yale medicine which is very good has a prestigious client. But this today and we love that we're excited about working with them. They're terrific people but today we signed a 17 location addiction treatment center and no budget practice. And then another actually in ophthalmology facial plastic who's a friend and a friend of mine and a fan of our company. So it's been quite a good day.

Saul Marquez: [00:05:01] Awesome, outstanding. I'm glad to be here with you celebrating Stewart and thanks for sharing that too. You know it sounds like he kind of ebbed and flowed into health care and eventually just kind of stuck. And so. So here we are you know just kind of chatted about how doctors and providers can better market services because at the end of the day if you don't have people walking into that front door and they're not repeatedly coming through you're not going to be benefiting them with all the things that you're thinking about and helping improve outcome. So can you give us an example Stuart of how you guys do things differently.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:05:36] Well it's funny. First of all you brought up doctors and the fact that you can't it doesn't matter if you don't have patients right way back in the day.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:05:44] I like music and one of my professors told me that you know it doesn't. You know if you're doing something really creative and really wonderful nobody nobody's watching you what have you. CRUZ And in medicine we use that analogy as well that there is a sort of push and pull dilemma when it comes to doctors in particular over marketing. So they want patients, they want to be successful but they don't want to be what I call cheesy needy greedy and sleazy. So they want to market it in a way that is tasteful and that's ethical. And so having you mentioned I stumbled into this but my sensibility really worked well for this field because I thought it was going to be an engineer. It was really good at science and math and I was in engineering school. I happened to take a marketing class on a lark and just fell in love with it. It turns out I'm a creative person and analytical at the same time which is pretty rare. It's kind of explains why I'm so not like a good town but what interesting is our philosophy the way we do business matches with the doctor personalities. So meaning that what they don't really care. Most doctors we work with don't really care about branding they don't really care about Web sites they don't care about newspaper ads they don't care about it they just want patients. They really are focused on patients. So how you get there is kind of subjective.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:07:01] My joke is when I'm speaking our seminars is not everybody. In fact I had a exception yesterday I was speaking with somebody. Most are looking to put 100 dollars into a box and the patient pops out. That's exciting. So at the end of the day the doctors that we work with are very very focused on results and so that's why you ask. It's kind of maybe circuitous the way I'm answering your question but what makes us unique what that focus about patients and ROI and it turns out that fits perfectly with doctor personalities. Most doctors are very skeptical about marketing. They haven't met anybody that's very good. So when they meet us you know we're taught focusing on our why we're focusing on educating or talking to them in terms of that they can understand science and at best practices and evidence and testing hypotheses and tracking them. They seem to love that. Which again makes sense in which many as I mentioned engineering background a lot of people that do what I do. I mean they're all good people but a lot really are frustrated doctors. I'd rather be a doctor. That's not me at all. I love what I do. I love doing the marketing side of it. But I think doctors really appeal that we try to develop way you know marketing systems that bring patients profitably. And I can describe that if you like I mean if you going to go down what that looks like.

Saul Marquez: [00:08:15] Yeah and definitely want to hear about that. And so kind of made me wonder. Healthcare success is is the name of your firm and I love that because it just summarizes it pretty succinctly right. You're helping health care providers have success by giving them the patients and then they could focus on an outcomes improvement.

Saul Marquez: [00:08:34] And so I'm curious of a time now that hasn't always been smooth. Stewart I'm wondering of a time where you had some setbacks and what you learned from those right if you like a lot of times we learn more from those and maybe there's people out there working on their own to get their marketing done.

Saul Marquez: [00:08:52] Share something with them that you learn.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:08:55] In terms of set backs for me personally or on set backs for clients with which way do you mean.

Saul Marquez: [00:08:59] Let's talk about the clients as it relates to efforts to reach out to pay it.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:09:05] Got it. Okay. So the thing is that the principles work that we talk about there not just from us.

: [00:09:11] So again with that whole best practices concept in advertising is really two schools of thought. There's what's called a name or initial branding where you're getting your name out here's my name here's my name here's my name. And then there's also a direct response and direct response is all about finding some that works and testing it and doing it. So for example in traditional direct response you have offers. So for example if you're America's main doctor a big offer they do as varicose veins screenings you know on a certain day you get to get your screen not a full exam but a screening for free. So the principles work where practices can get caught up in. There's lots of obstacles. So for example some of the things we teach is how to ask patients for referrals to get them to refer to it more often it turns out most doctors hate the idea of asking patients for free will they feel needy and they just don't like doing it. It really works so it's very easy for in terms of a failure for doctors to rely on that but they never actually ask or they ask once and it's awkward and they never do it again. It's possible too. Now I'm trying to think of anybody who's sort of a poster child for that for example not thing I remember Prats we grew like crazy and every year they invited us out to teach their daughters how to ask patients for fros and every year I'd say it's a start.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:10:25] Meaning by Ok who did it last year. Never would sort of look at me she said of all the marketings working so hard we don't have that space. So my girl yes you do. So that happens a lot. I would say been thinking of other you know specific client stories. I think it really comes down to the people that haven't been successful either. They don't do what's proven expenses or they bring too much emotional baggage and a lot of times it's today it's groups where you have partners who are excited about moving forward. But there's other partners that don't. And so they end up doing nothing. So the classic is and I don't know if any of my list or any of your listeners rather are groups of 10. But if there's a group of ten doctors prototypical you're going to find and they always think I'm psychic because I've actually had this happen to be two doctors that are thrilled with marketing excited pushing it forward 60 after the two that are dead set against it and it's just kind of the common dynamic and so that's where failure usually arises worry. Lose sight of the bigger picture. And we agreed to agree some day and it just gets lost the momentum gets lost. Was that helpful to the nine Nerium things I see.

Saul Marquez: [00:11:29] Very common very much helpful some some good nuggets there and and contract listeners take this into consideration. You know sometimes it's the simplest things like asking for referrals that will lead to a growing practice and you can't overcomplicate some things sometimes. But you also have to think outside the box and maybe do things that are a little uncomfortable for you. And so. Stewart, what do you do if you're uncomfortable with these things. What do you suggest?

Stewart Gandolf: [00:11:57] Know I tweeted something about this a couple of days ago I'm going to try to find a target because I heard a quote that I thought was perfect and I don't remember what it was but rather than have you guys wait while I'm looking on the Internet here.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:12:09] The thing about it is is that what I think might be really helpful for your listeners is one of our most successful articles ever was all about there are six ways to market any practice. There's just six ways and so people love that idea. And when you break it down it's like Oh that kind of makes sense. So the first way which we just referred to is internal marketing or also sort of a corollary that is patient experience. So internal marketing means includes asking patients for referrals. It includes for example cross-selling additional services. For example if you're in a plastic surgery practice that somebody come in for Botox and upselling them surgery that includes answering the phones right which is absolutely crucial and difficult and hard. And there's nothing happens if that people don't make it off the front desk. And so for a lot of your listeners I'll give you another uncomfortable issue if you are the wrong person on the front desk. You're killing yourself. You are causing you know it's common for 50 percent 75 percent of new patient inquiries to be lost to the front desk. So if you're not willing and able to intervene and either train that person which is the right thing to do is just the wrong person make that change you're going to carry that baggage on forever.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:13:23] And it's brutally expensive. Another uncomfortable story that you'll probably like this one of the things I share my seminars a lot is about the. And it turns out this was an EMT practice in North Carolina I think it was where he finally went to the seminar we taught a fired his grumpy used to Laurus was grumpy curmudgeonly office manager and they all got used to saying it's still ours. That's for us anyway they fire the Mersey. Actually that's not true. They didn't fire. I remember now it's even worse than that she retired myrth the police retired after 30 years. And what happened was the practice shot up by 30 percent immediately upon her retirement. So think about that. Nothing else had changed. 30 percent influence over 20 years or Doris's of the practice. How successful or how expensive was the. The fact was uncomfortable being willing to fire her a reprimand or by the way I found the quote and I was from a conference last week and this is awesome. This hopefully or our listeners will write this down if they're not driving.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:14:26] Glad you're comfortable. Yeah your comfortable place is not your place of growth. So it's kind of funny I read that about a week ago when this happened to remember it took me away to finish.

: [00:14:37] Yeah it's an awesome when I did. That was just something that somebody said offhand and like that is awesome I love that. Anyway going back to the six way so that's one way internal marketing and that's a big area right there. Second one is internet marketing it's one of our favorite areas of digital or expertise. How we grow our company Websites as the pay per click, Facebook, social media, reputation all those things. That's a huge huge area doctor referrals is another key one that most people don't think of as marketing and that's absolutely crucial and that's a big big area for us and we need work on. By the way in all six of these areas creating ongoing systems that positively influence doctors is a huge area of opportunity for nationalist fourth category is branding, fifth category as public relations which mostly includes publicity getting free press and community events. And the sixth category is its advertising. So there's a lot there. It's a huge palette of strategies that you can choose from. But the whole comfort thing is think about all the areas we can be uncomfortable with what I just described. You can be uncomfortable. You know I'm gonna write an article about this. Thanks for reminding me because as I write my own blog article this is how we got them for their content but the place of comfort is you can be uncomfortable asking patients for referrals, you could be uncomfortable managing your staff you can be uncomfortable. We talk about doctor referrals it can feel like a dirty salesperson trying to build doctor referrals. You can feel comfortable with branding and publicity publicity being in front of TV. I'm too comfortable with advertising as you're worried about losing money you can worry about what you look like online. There it is. Perhaps we solved the whole problem.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:16:13] It's all about being uncomfortable. Well there you have the biggest obstacle. Now we're done now. We can hang out.

Saul Marquez: [00:16:19] Yeah. The problem solved. Let's move on to the next big challenge shall we say the listeners. Yeah. One thing the take away here is like Stewart said is the place of growth is the place where you're uncomfortable and maybe that means outsourcing this to a company like Stewart's. Maybe it means replacing somebody that's not working. So ask yourself that question, what is it that it's going to take for you to take your marketing to the next level so that you could do what you do best which is take care of patients. Such great advice here. This is amazing right. We went through so much and the time just flies. We're getting close to the end here but what I want to do is a quick lightning round with you. Sure. It's a course on marketing and what it takes to be successful. Let's call it the ABC of Stewart Gandolf. And so we're going to go through this four questions and then we're going to end with a book that you recommend to the listeners ready.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:17:17] Sure.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:17:18] All right, so what's the best way to improve your health care outreach.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:17:24] I would say the key is to figure out a way to get marketing systems in place.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:17:29] The problem is it's very easy to be sporadic and OK you ask somebody for referrals are you going to get around to it again and then you know you look up in six months went by. That's one of the reasons why we like digital marketing so much. And of course it sounds self-serving but one of the things is that by digital marketing is used are the most cost effective ways to get patients passively. You can spend money on marketing. You can spend time on marketing. There's nothing that's free on both time and money. So the usually I would say that if you're looking for patients digital is the way to go because it can be work in spite of you not doing your part about patients for referrals or going out to lunch with other doctors and then the cool thing about it is is that when it works. Paying for it next month is out of profits in this month. So it can be a virtuous cycle.

Saul Marquez: [00:18:11] I love it. What's the biggest mistake or pitfall to avoid.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:18:14] I would say looking at it from marketing as an expense I would be probably number one.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:18:19] So it's not about at all but marketing cost. It matters what did you invest versus what did you make. So for example I think to a lot of credibility with clients and audiences when we speak at conferences or wherever. When I say you know what I'm asking to spend money on marketing but I spend 30000 a month. So it does not many marketing companies we haven't earned Amely and our company 25 people 40 50 60 clients. There's not a lot of companies that are size in this world like unfortunate doctors. I'm not aware of anybody like that. Those are small people. There's no like not many companies of scale. And then why am I willing to do that because I know it's profitable. And so the fact that if you're willing to look at and figure it out in terms of how can I invest money and test track and adjust and do it in a way that's profitable. What's great is like a lot of things to come back and say I'm going to spend more if I'm spending 10000 a month to get 100000 a month. Well what if I spent twenty thousand. Could I get two hundred thousand a month.

Saul Marquez: [00:19:13] Now this is great. It's not inexpensive. If it's bringing you money it's an investment.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:19:18] And so that's a really easy to focus solely on the cost side of it for sure.

Saul Marquez: [00:19:25] What do you say is important to do to stay relevant despite the constant change.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:19:31] It's a great question.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:19:32] Healthcare changes so fast and you know it's funny because I talked to people about it all that time in terms of our own business like while how do you guys continue to grow it's because we are willing to and really have to reinvent ourselves. I know people say that it's kind of a buzz word but it's the truth. You know like I was just yesterday I talked to a client or former seminar attendees not a client as a former seminar attendee that went to one of our seminars six years ago and our company is unrecognisable to what it was back years ago. So I think it's brilliant. You didn't really it was really difficult actually of a call because in his mind we were something we were six years ago as a completely different company. And so I would say that in healthcare you have telemedicine for example. You have urgent care you have if you're on the primary care side you're competing with Walgreens. Now the realization of health care the fact that patient experience is I could go on and on and have you know you don't have time but about patient experiences consumer demands and expectations are completely different than they've ever been before. So all these things are happening really really fast. My primary care guy I talk to him about I send him an email were friends about what's going on now. Telemedicine I was talking and in my comment my last comment was hey healthcare is changing fast and email back said way too fast for me and so I would say that's like figure oh high deductible insurance plans. All these things are crazy crazy fast and it's really really difficult to keep up but you have to if you want to stay in business and then on board.

Saul Marquez: [00:21:08] Yeah absolutely. Finally the last question here is what's one area of focus if you had to pick one. Stewart that should drive everything else in your marketing efforts.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:21:19] Okay that's a great question. I would say the product. Okay. So this is funny having a marketing person say the product because what I often talk about is is that you know amateur marketers will rush and start talking about promotion right away. It's

Stewart Gandolf: [00:21:32] A simple thing to do. It's like well if you sell radios that you can talk about first right radio if you're a newspaper salesperson you know a newspaper of your market consult you're going to somehow talk about consulting. But really at the end of the day like when we work with our clients we have a couple different levels of clients but we work with clients. We typically start with what we called Exam diagnosis and treatment plan. And before and when we talk about we so we do a real deep dive on their business. And rather than do or call marketing malpractice and give them a bunch of ideas on what to do. We start off by looking at their business and what's great what's not doing a swat analysis and really thinking through like what should the product be. Because you know I'll give you a quick story on that. My mom when she was she just passed away about a year and a half ago too but I wanted her last doctor's appointments with thank you. It was great actually because she made it to 94 her last day she saw she saw a play and had spaghetti dinner. You know she had complete control over faculty's so some breasts are tragic. Hers was asking a lie. Thank you. But the. At any rate her cardiologists we went there one time at 730 for her appointment and we're sitting around at age 15. Mike what gives. Nobody here what's happening. Oh well the doctor doesn't come until 9:00. And it turned out I was speaking on patient experience the Cleveland Clinic and a couple weeks.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:22:52] They picked the wrong time or if they had the wrong guy to pick on.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:22:56] But my point is is that you know I was livid. I'm like You must be kidding you're insulting me. My mother is sitting here for 45 minutes. She's not a morning. Not all morning people by the way are early risers now so we're both sitting there and I ask why on earth would you ever have to sit here. And they said well because more convenient for the doctor than is all thinking that is passed. And those people are going to be employees up there not already. Really so many consumers just won't stand it. Old people they grew up with the doctor knows everything. Those people are dying off. So yeah I would say that that's the biggest thing.

Saul Marquez: [00:23:33] I like it. And finally what book would you recommend to the listeners.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:23:36] Stu I know it's so funny ever since you said that thought oh my gosh I've read so money or so many rather and most of what I'm reading now is very tactical.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:23:45] Like you know Internet marketing really specific things that I think are sort of outside of common reading and so I'll try to think of some additional ones and if you care we can link are also just some after this podcast. Shared the one that strikes me is one that you probably wouldn't expect from a marketing person. I had and I'll share with you the anecdote it was a black dermatologist's African. He was still chief of his tribe. He was one of my seminars and he was larger than life and his name was Namadi, I'm not sure of his last name. But he was larger than life and always did finish my seminar with the sort of inspirational part and I talked about positive thinking and you know what does it take to grow really big business and what are the traits of the really successful practitioners. And I went through this whole thing and it's typical of my audience somebody was skeptical and said hey that's all truth and that's all great but not Namadi. He's just like that because he was really larger than life. I mean he had 11 practices the only been out of school for or been practicing for a few years. He already had 11 locations he was African and lily white Rhode Island he used to wear where he was a fly back to Africa to be with his people as a chief of the tribe on a quarterly basis.

Saul Marquez: [00:24:51] So you're literally right where a tribe I thought you were using it as chief of a tribe.

Saul Marquez: [00:24:56] You know the culture as it is.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:24:58] No he was really touchy and he was just larger than life. I mean he had everybody of those guys ever. He just wants to follow.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:25:05] And there were smitten men. He was just and then they said Namadi that's everything. It just said is true. But not really it's just you. They said no no no. Think and Grow Rich. Changed my life he said as a young boy I was poor. I read that can grow rich and it changed my life. I always think that story is amazing and people ask me I just had one of my employees actually asked me how did you get to where you are. It's kind of cool because at this point they ask that they want to be me which I think is awesome like I'm sure. Like wow I don't know how I got here but you know it's like I've read probably hundreds and hundreds of books and think and grow rich is one of them. But it's not so much about that specific book but it's about continual growth and learning and being open and saying Who am I to argue with the Mahdi. And I did better than you know what I mean.

: [00:25:50] You know Stewart, a great story and funny story is that I I love that book and recommend to any of the listeners I just finished reading it again for the fourth time. It's amazing. It is one of my all time favorites and listeners. If you have not picked up thinking grow rich don't take it from me don't take it from Stewart. Take it from Namadi just a wonderful book that you'll get seriously. Every time I pick it up there's new tidbits that help me build my business. And it's not about you know growing rich financially only it's about growing rich emotionally with your relationships it's just outstanding this is wonderful Stewart thank you for presenting it with the wonderful story right.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:26:30] I really enjoyed this. Thanks anytime and good luck to your listeners and I appreciate it.

Saul Marquez: [00:26:35] Yeah I know. It's been a blast and now what would you say the best place for the listeners to get a hold of you would be.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:26:42] If you go to healthcaresuccess.com better than that though.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:26:45] Give all kinds of free stuff from my website. So we have a blog with several thousand articles on it. You can go to my website healthcaresuccess.com.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:26:53] Go to the free resources as a blog there. There's a ton of white papers too there. So for example we talked earlier about skeptical doctors and groups. I have white papers on things like the seven deadly sins of marketing or how to advertise and so forth. The one is how to convince skeptical doctors on the need for marketings. There's all kinds of you know having done this now for 20 years with doctors and hospitals. I really I can almost finish their sentences when they tell me about their stories about what it's like at their practice trying to get stuff done. So I think there's tons of free stuff there that they can get ZERO obligation. I do it for the good. If you're interested, more than now that we have seminars we have across stations we do that in a day we're full service agency. Most of our club pays our bills is not the free stuff obviously but people come to us and say hey we just want a patient. I mean I told you today we signed this big addiction center today. He called us off a calling for a seminar but our seminar says what if he'd just rather we do it all for you.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:27:49] We said that's it. I want you after all.

Saul Marquez: [00:27:51] I want that option.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:27:53] Yeah exactly.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:27:54] I don't learn about this crap I just want you to do it for me and that's so I thought that's how we pay the bills.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:27:59] But the other stuff is free for everybody so I'll bet.

Saul Marquez: [00:28:02] That's awesome stored so listeners please go to outcomesrocket.com/gandolf. Thats G A N D O L F. It's Mr. Stewart Gandolf and you'll find all the links to the resources that Stewart has mentioned as well as all the show notes. So you don't have to worry about pulling over and writing it down. So thank you so much Stewrt. It's been a blast. Looking forward to staying in touch.

Stewart Gandolf: [00:28:25] Goo day, thank you. Take care. Bye bye.

: [00:28:31] Thanks for listening to the outcomes Rocket podcast.

: [00:28:34] Be sure to visit us on the web at wwww.outcomesrocket.health for the show notes, resources inspiration and so much more.

Recommended Book/s:

Think and Grow Rich

Mentioned Link/s:

http://www.healthcaresuccess.com/

Healthcare Podcast

Outcomes Rocket Podcast - Stewart Gandolf

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